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my method

 
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:16 AM
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Re: my method

MikeBob,

You stated my opinion of lightvarmits actions perfectly, thank you. His latest post is a good example. At least he is fooling with someone who can take care of himself. I do not however attribute all of lightvarmits actions to Mr. Henson.

To his credit GreyGhost did post a picture of an exit wound after much cajoling by many members including myself.

Based on Goodgrouper's tests of this bullet I feel confident enough of penetration to test this bullet on live animals (culling does). If it tumbles I should get an exit and recovery of the animal, so long as I do my part.

I decided to test these bullets because lightvarmit was basically challenging people to do it. I had the bullets and all equipment necessary for the tests, so decided what the hey. After lightvarmits antics I am not sure that anyone is going to give his tests any credit anyway.

I do hope that these bullets perform well on game and give us all another high BC option for the big 338s. I am not trying to do anything to discredit goodgroupers findings or methods. But am interested in this rotaional theory in general and just want to know if these things are gonna work.
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:01 AM
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Re: my method

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddybo View Post
MikeBob,

You stated my opinion of lightvarmits actions perfectly, thank you. His latest post is a good example. At least he is fooling with someone who can take care of himself. I do not however attribute all of lightvarmits actions to Mr. Henson.

To his credit GreyGhost did post a picture of an exit wound after much cajoling by many members including myself.

Based on Goodgrouper's tests of this bullet I feel confident enough of penetration to test this bullet on live animals (culling does). If it tumbles I should get an exit and recovery of the animal, so long as I do my part.

I decided to test these bullets because lightvarmit was basically challenging people to do it. I had the bullets and all equipment necessary for the tests, so decided what the hey. After lightvarmits antics I am not sure that anyone is going to give his tests any credit anyway.

I do hope that these bullets perform well on game and give us all another high BC option for the big 338s. I am not trying to do anything to discredit goodgroupers findings or methods. But am interested in this rotaional theory in general and just want to know if these things are gonna work.

I agree. I hold out hope that these bullets will perform well. I also do not know enough about how fast a given bullet must rotate in order to perform correctly. In dealing w/ the mono metal bullets I have come to the conclusion that depending on what material a bullet is made out of, and exterior ballistics, will have some bearing on the amount of twist needed to properly stabilize it on impact. What type of material is being impacted will make a difference as well.

As for GG's tests, I think they were very good. He gave us real information gathered in a very controlled experiment. All the info is there, we have found out that the HAT bullets shoot very accurately, but do not like reduced muzzle velocity impacts. Other proven long range bullets do better in this controlled test. In my mind it is nothing more than this, and nothing less.

Thanks to every one who has taken the time to try these new bullets and post their results. It saves me time and energy.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:01 AM
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Re: my method

Quote:
After lightvarmits antics I am not sure that anyone is going to give his tests any credit anyway.
Eddie
I think that pretty much sums the situation up. Remember this, that it is your own reputation for honesty and integrity gets put on the line. It is not hard to get good pictures that allow the individual to make their own decision. Have a good trip and have some fun and get us some "reliable" pictures.

One other thing to consider is that different animals have different density bones and thickness of hide, hair and so forth, so the wound channel will be a little different on different species.

Here is a picture of an antelope exit wound at 200 yards with the 115 Berger and the same rifle and load on a whitetail deer at 250 yards. Notice that there is not really much difference in bullet strike but a large difference in exit wound size. From my experience with the Berger on antelope the exit wound stays about 2 inches from 150 yards all the way out to 1140 yards. That to me is constant performance over a wide variety of ranges and that is because an antelope just does not have the density and mass to challenge a bullet's performance. A deer is more of a challenge to the bullet.






I have about the same type of pictures for the 200 grain Wildcat from the 7 AM an antelope at 350 yards (which gives it a similiar impact velocity). The exit hole is about four or five inches in diameter and it does that to an antelope all the way from 200 yards to 910 yards( and I have those pictures also). On a deer at 710 yards it produces an exit wound of abut 0.75 inches when encountering a rib going in and a rib coming out.

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  #11  
Old 12-16-2008, 12:43 PM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: my method

Quote:
Originally Posted by meichele View Post
On second thought, LV you really need to step up to the plate. Put up or shut up.

A phone book test just around the corner?????? You are preaching about your bullets performance and you havent tested them??????????????????
Meichele,

As previously advertised and stated, they have been tested in media and on live game as well.

However, the 1000 yard phone book test we will conduct will be to verify the validity one that was done by GG at 100 yards at reduced velocity and spin. If the 100 yard test and the theory of the test conducted in Utah was valid, then the 1000 yard one I will do should indicate the same penetration and expansion characteristics.

I almost forgot to mention that we are not just testing the HAT bullets in the phone books. We will be testing Bergers, Sierras, Noslers, Swifts and HATS to see how each stacks up against the other in a real long range test when launched at hunting velocities. That is if we can get enough phone books. As before, if the short range tests performed at reduced velocities and spin (to simulate longer range impacts) are valid, then we should get very similar results. We shall see.

Impact velocity should be somewhere between 2200 and 2400 fps.

Lightvarmint

Last edited by Lightvarmint; 12-16-2008 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Add additional information
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2008, 12:52 PM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: my method

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebob View Post
Goodgrouper

I for one believe you or the others did nothing wrong asking for proof, pictures, etc.
I think he should not have been offended by anyone asking for proof of how well a product performs other than his word. Most people on this forum post some kind of proof of the claims they are making, willing to take and answer questions about test or products without any belittling of the person asking. Most if not all people on this forum would not take an untested product out in the field and just start shooting "live" animals with it without some idea of its terminal performance. I for one really like reading about your bullet tests and your findings and find them to be very accurate in what i have found. Many people on this forum respect your test, your knowledge of ballistics, your willingness to help others, and you as a person. I am a real easy going kinda guy, the kind of guy that can get along with anyone ( so I've been told) and I have to admit i really dont like his attitude or the attitude of greyghostt. I would like to shoot the best bullet out today but I wouldn't even considerate it at the excpence of being belittled for asking a simple question. You did nothing wrong, don't fret it, everyone who actually read it knows what a moron he was being to everyone, even fellow LRH who were trying to help him out and being curtious. Some people just have to be the best under any circumstance and go so tied up in it dont realize what a moron they are becoming to others.

Lightvarmit you need to ease up, answer question without being a smart ass, post some pictures of the performance. You will find most hunters on here won't just buy a bullet and start shooting live animals without knowing what kind of performance to expect from it, hence all the questions and request for pictures of perfomance. If not from your ******* contest do it for the hunters who were intersted in trying it. If you dont a LRH will and you might not like his outtake on performance. So test it the way you think it should be done, post it, take pictures, and let us make up our own minds if we want to use it. If not, don't bitch about the way a fellow LRH tested its performance. Hell I (and many others) have gotten berger, nosler, hornady, speer and others to email me pictures, videos, data sheets, or pretty much anything else I have ask for to help me in my endevors of LRH. So you see its pretty suspicious that you will not back your claims. Anyway enough rambling I hope your bullets do turn out the way you say they perform.
I hope they perform well too. However, they are not mine. Mr Henson is the owner of the company. I am only the tester. Photo of the most recent victim is posted and has been on here since last Wednesday. Maybe you did not see it.

BTW, the specific reason we did not take pictures initially was due to GoodGrouper and his statement that he would not even believe a photo. But as time went by it seemed that others would believe photos and so I took a photo of the last test and sent it to Mr Henson for his records. He then chose to post it for the readership's information.

I don't usually even take dead animal photos, much less post dead animal photos......... Just not my cup of tea.

Lightvarmint
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2008, 01:01 PM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: my method

[/QUOTE]

How much did the antelope weigh in the photo? It looks smaller than our does we are using for testing. But, they look to have larger feet.

Lightvarmint
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2008, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Posts: 354
Re: my method

eddybo

you are right and i appologize to you and Mr. Henson for adding his name on my post and looking forward to your results.


lightvarmit

I did not see the pictures, but thank you for posting them. I will search for them right know.
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