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Muzzle brakes

 
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  #29  
Old 04-08-2012, 04:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: Muzzle brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rem40xb1 View Post
Well I do know one thing for sure. Nathans brake is top of the line in recoil reduction and muzzle jump elimination. His 4 port brake at $45.00 shipped is about 1/3 the cost of the other brakes mentioned. I have these brakes on everything from a 223 to a 470 Capstick and they work. Like Nathan over the last 20 years I have never had a problem with the accuracy of a rifle due to the brake. It really all comes down to WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET One more thing at $45.00 Nathan is still at 100%+ profit.

I would like to ask what is a fair price for something that cost less then $20.00 to make or have made. We see it all around us it is called greed
With that comment you turn a civil thread into somthing else.
Ross really! I pay more for my brakes than what Nathan charges for his, this is in runs of 100 or more. I have anywhere from $15,000 - $25,000 (at my cost) worth of brakes in stock at any one time. I run a legitimit buisness as a gunsmith full time, I'm not collecting income from anything but my buisness, and your dribble about greed is about as far fetched as it gets. Had you ever run a legitimit buisness you would know the true costs. Overhead; Do you pay product liability insurance? insurance to cover your work? sales taxs? property tax on a buisness property other than your home? Your way of doing buisness has always been back door. Your insinuations are insulting, I run my buisness on honesty, integrety and trust, it makes a fair wage, but less than I could make doing other things I'm qualified for. Next time you want to bring up trash on the internet think twice about the untruths you are typing.
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  #30  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: IOWA
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Re: Muzzle brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyboy View Post
Some may or may not agree with me but i have proven it, been there and done that. Education can be expensive when you learn the hard way.

My original batch of the CSR brakes was made of standard 416 bar stock that has a hardness of R20-21 in it's delivered form. I put one on a friends 300win mag. After about 275-325 rounds of 190 smks on H1000 Greg noticed a fall off in accuracy that would then come and go, and then just go. Luckily Greg shoots alot and this took about 2 months to develop. That brake was bored .022" over bullet dia, allowing a .330 pin gauge to slide thru the bore hole. At the point that he brought in the rifle, only a .315 pin gauge would slide thru.

(The next week, all my existing brakes went out for heat treat, the 416 stock can be hardened up to about 29-31 rockwell scale.)

The thru holes had closed up .015", caused by the displacement of the leading edge of the clearance hole being punished by pressure and residue, rolling over a bur into the leading edge of the hole. This bur was unconcentric thus causing a disruption in accuracy. (Would the change be noticed on a factory rifle that shoots over moa? may-be not.) But this turned his legit sub 1/2 moa gun into a 1 1/2 moa gun.

SS is a gummy sticky material and the little burs want to hold on, after impacts, pressure and work hardening they can fracture off, in other words the clearance hole is in a constant state of change.


Shortly after this discovery I had a 6.5wsm, built by Kirby, come thru the shop with accuracy problems 1-2 moa with about 175 rounds fired. (Now this had a brake that Kirby used before he developed the Painkiller line of brakes, so please don't take this as anything other than an example of this issue being discussed.) A 3 port with straight thru ports no angles. Same issue bur rolled into thru holes and clearance contact issues with the unconcentric bur and bullets.
I replaced the brake and it was back to 1/2moa performance. To the gunsmith that is aware of this potential problem it is easy to spot with or with-out a bore scope, and is the first thing I check on any gun with a brake that comes thru my shop with accuracy issues, because it is that prevalent and common.

I have inspected a radial ported brake with holes around the circumfrance, each little hole showed a formed bur, which thus interfered with concentric clearance.

These brakes all had one thing in common, you guessed it. Now I start with pre-hardened 416 which tests out between 29-31 depending on the lot. This material cost more and takes longer to machine. This does not 100% elliminate the problem but it greatly reduces and slows it. I have an additional step I do in the process of boring the thru holes in the brakes during instal, that now virtually eliminates the formation of any bur in my brakes. Any-one who has ordered a brake from me in the last 2 years know what I am talking about because it is included in the installation instructions.

Now a bur in your brake dosn't mean it needs to be trashed they can be removed/cleaned up by the user, and if watched can give reliable service.
I just don't need the headache of a product that isn't what I feel is the best I can offer.

Hardening does matter, often the brakes "failure" goes unnoticed because it is not on a rifle capable of sub 1/2 moa accuracy.
How many guys have had a good shooting rifle go south and blamed throat erosion when it could have been brake "failure".
I'm not the only custom rifle builder to be aware of this issue, I have discussed it with a few of them. I sell brakes to at least 10 gunsmiths across the country, and they receive my instructions for the install mod to prevent issues and none of them have called to debate my findings as misleading or false.

Like anything in this business mileage may vary, a soft brake on a 26" 308 may show no problems for 1000+ rounds, add a magnum, overbore, short barrel, slow burning powder. and things change in a hurry.
Great post. Learn something new everyday.
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  #31  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mountain Home Idaho
Posts: 127
Re: Muzzle brakes

To Jim C

I Apologize for the comments I made. My choice of words was wrong.
I have heard nothing but positive comments about your product and your dealings with people. The comments I made do not belong on this forum and they were inappropriate. Ross
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: Muzzle brakes

Thank You Ross, I think we are all above this type of talk, and you have shown you are a gentleman. God bless you on your recovery.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: Muzzle brakes

OK just some follow up, i am getting a few PMs where guys have had issues with various brakes they have, I am copy and pasteing this reply so that the majority of PM's will be answered, and it won't create more.

The Brake reffered to earlier that Kirby installed on the 6.5wsm, WAS NOT a DE brake,
It was somthing Kirby used early on, and I dought he still uses it.

Text quote;
Karl, it was not a DE brake.

But if you are seeing a problem I would check your brakes clearance, it is possible, under the right coditions, that hardened brakes can have this happen to them, with high intensity cartriges, pistol length barrels, or certain powders. I currently cut a small chamfer, on the clearance hole, on the side of the baffle that recieves the blast, during the boring process during instalation, this eliminates the issue of the formation bur rolling over into the clearance hole, even under extreame conditions.

to check it look very close at the clearance holes edge, that recieves the blast, it can occur on all 3 baffles, not just the first, if you have pin gauges you can measure your clearance, should be .020" over bore dia. minimum.

If there is a problem there you can correct it yourself, take a 1/4" brass rod, cut a slit in one end to hold a small pc of emery cloth. chuck it in a drill and hone out the ID hole thru the brake, this will fracture off the little burs with-out increasing the thru holes dia. by more than .001"

MAKE SURE YOU PROTECT THE CROWN if you do this with the brake on the rifle. A couple wood tounge depressors slid in the first port opening closest to the crown will act as a bump stop.

I hope this helps you.
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  #34  
Old 02-20-2013, 01:00 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 29
Re: Muzzle brakes

Well folks, this is my first post after stumbling upon this great forum a couple weeks ago.

This thread is a great resource, and I look forward to buying stuff from some of you vendors in the future as I build rifles.

Thanks for the input

Dan
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