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Muzzle brakes

 
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rem40xb1 View Post
I have been making brakes for over 20 years also without hardening and I have never seen one that had any problems at all. I have sold hundreds of brakes and I have never had to replace one. I guess I have just been lucky or hardening doesn't matter
Ross
Does the 4 port Brake reduce more recoil then the 3 port ?
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  #16  
Old 04-07-2012, 02:05 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

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Originally Posted by Iron Worker View Post
Does the 4 port Brake reduce more recoil then the 3 port ?

It depends on the case volume. For a .308 no. For a .30-.378 yes.
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:48 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

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Originally Posted by IdahoCTD View Post
It depends on the case volume. For a .308 no. For a .30-.378 yes.
So a cartridge like mine(6x284) holding 55-60grs of powder a 4 port brake would be of minimal advantage over a 3 port ?
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

Yep.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2012, 05:51 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

A 3 port or a mini muscle brake is ideal for the WSM's. Jim is making a new one that's kinda in-between those two also.

As far as treating brakes is concerned, why wouldn't you? If it helps prevent pitting. A brake isn't a one time use, & throw away tool for a lot of folks. It can be used on as many pipes as you can wear out.
I have no idea how effective heat treating is, but I bought what I felt was the ideal brake for my cartrige, & rifle build. Id like to try one of Ross's brakes too. Maybe in the future ill get one for one of my other rifles.
I hold no animosity toward anyone's decisions for whatever brake they choose. I'm no metalurgist either, so as far as the effectiveness of treating metal for this purpose or that, I can't form a scientific opinion. But I will say that Jim has always been polite to me, & helpful with questions, & I knew he was a long time LRH sponsor, so, after looking, & researching brakes for better than a year, I chose his because I liked the looks of it. I liked the videos on YouTube. I liked getting questions answered honestly, without Any pressure to buy, & no badmouthing any other LRH sponsors brakes/products. He has always been humble, helpfull, & honest with me, & I felt like I was getting an effective, quality product for the price.
I really liked Kirbys painkiller brake too, & he fit all the same criteria as Jim did. In the end I chose what I felt was best for me in this particular case, & build.

I've hered great things about Ross brakes also. Wildrose swears by them. Ive just never talked to either of you two cause I never knew you were an LRH sponsor,& never saw a sponsor tag untill very recently on posts by grit. Maybe I missed it.?
I did here Mr Ross was involved in a horrible accident not too long ago, during my research on brakes it came up, so Ive definitely hered of your brakes before hand, but just never knew you were a sponsor with grit. I'm very glad to here you are doing well.
You will be involved in my future research.
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2012, 06:18 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

I've been installing and shooting the Muscle brakes, I have a Hollands on order and will get some from IdahoCDT to try. I've spoken to smiths that have found measurable change in the front baffle on non treated brakes, I have not measured any change. Barrels are hardened to 28-32 Rockwell from what info is available so if that is good for barrels maybe it ain't all that bad for the brake, don't know?
I'm more worried about function, I have yet to use a brake that has the over all awesome performance of the Muscle brake and after installing one everyone seems to want more!
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2012, 07:43 PM
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Re: Muzzle brakes

Some may or may not agree with me but i have proven it, been there and done that. Education can be expensive when you learn the hard way.

My original batch of the CSR brakes was made of standard 416 bar stock that has a hardness of R20-21 in it's delivered form. I put one on a friends 300win mag. After about 275-325 rounds of 190 smks on H1000 Greg noticed a fall off in accuracy that would then come and go, and then just go. Luckily Greg shoots alot and this took about 2 months to develop. That brake was bored .022" over bullet dia, allowing a .330 pin gauge to slide thru the bore hole. At the point that he brought in the rifle, only a .315 pin gauge would slide thru.

(The next week, all my existing brakes went out for heat treat, the 416 stock can be hardened up to about 29-31 rockwell scale.)

The thru holes had closed up .015", caused by the displacement of the leading edge of the clearance hole being punished by pressure and residue, rolling over a bur into the leading edge of the hole. This bur was unconcentric thus causing a disruption in accuracy. (Would the change be noticed on a factory rifle that shoots over moa? may-be not.) But this turned his legit sub 1/2 moa gun into a 1 1/2 moa gun.

SS is a gummy sticky material and the little burs want to hold on, after impacts, pressure and work hardening they can fracture off, in other words the clearance hole is in a constant state of change.


Shortly after this discovery I had a 6.5wsm, built by Kirby, come thru the shop with accuracy problems 1-2 moa with about 175 rounds fired. (Now this had a brake that Kirby used before he developed the Painkiller line of brakes, so please don't take this as anything other than an example of this issue being discussed.) A 3 port with straight thru ports no angles. Same issue bur rolled into thru holes and clearance contact issues with the unconcentric bur and bullets.
I replaced the brake and it was back to 1/2moa performance. To the gunsmith that is aware of this potential problem it is easy to spot with or with-out a bore scope, and is the first thing I check on any gun with a brake that comes thru my shop with accuracy issues, because it is that prevalent and common.

I have inspected a radial ported brake with holes around the circumfrance, each little hole showed a formed bur, which thus interfered with concentric clearance.

These brakes all had one thing in common, you guessed it. Now I start with pre-hardened 416 which tests out between 29-31 depending on the lot. This material cost more and takes longer to machine. This does not 100% elliminate the problem but it greatly reduces and slows it. I have an additional step I do in the process of boring the thru holes in the brakes during instal, that now virtually eliminates the formation of any bur in my brakes. Any-one who has ordered a brake from me in the last 2 years know what I am talking about because it is included in the installation instructions.

Now a bur in your brake dosn't mean it needs to be trashed they can be removed/cleaned up by the user, and if watched can give reliable service.
I just don't need the headache of a product that isn't what I feel is the best I can offer.

Hardening does matter, often the brakes "failure" goes unnoticed because it is not on a rifle capable of sub 1/2 moa accuracy.
How many guys have had a good shooting rifle go south and blamed throat erosion when it could have been brake "failure".
I'm not the only custom rifle builder to be aware of this issue, I have discussed it with a few of them. I sell brakes to at least 10 gunsmiths across the country, and they receive my instructions for the install mod to prevent issues and none of them have called to debate my findings as misleading or false.

Like anything in this business mileage may vary, a soft brake on a 26" 308 may show no problems for 1000+ rounds, add a magnum, overbore, short barrel, slow burning powder. and things change in a hurry.
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