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LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )

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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:08 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )


Does the break allow the gasses to exit reward, forward or out to the side?
If the gas exits anyway other then straight out to the side, it would be illegal at Williamsport. No reward gas ports allowed.

Is there a series of angled gas port holes drilled and ported opposit of the rifling twist to tame the torque problem? I'm unclear on how your principle works?
Angle drilled holes within the brake itself?
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:30 AM
Posts: n/a
Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )


You really want to give it all away?

How about I install one for you in trade for something?

Yes the gas is vented 90 degrees to the bore line.

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:50 AM
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Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )

I've been reading these posts about how this "anit-torque break" works and I'm about confused here also.
The only correlation I can see between accuracy and that lump of metal on the end of the barrel is changing the harmonic moment, much like the BOSS system does only I cant see if this break is positional on the barrel.
Now let me get this straight, firing pin hits primer, powder ignites, bullet travels down barrel and exits muzzle, at what point does this anit-torque increase accuracy?
In order to combat the effects of the torque in the first place wouldnt their need to be a force acting on it not after it? Are you telling us that the small precursor gas wave ahead of the bullet exiting has enough effect to overcome the torque
Seems to me its a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out.
I too have read Harold Vaughns book "Rifle Accuracy Facts" five or six times great reading and a lot of great scientific study put into it.
I think his method of drilling the action so that it is symetrical i.e. action mounting screw holes located on both the bottom and top and gas ports located on both sides along with his anit-recoil device proved to be more beneficial than any study he did on breaks.
I've built a few very effective breaks, and have drilled integeral breaks following the rifling, I saw an increase in accuracy, had nothing to do with barrel moment but less gas on the bullets tail when exiting the muzzle creating less "upsetting" gases.
I hope your not one of the guys who tells everyone that a fluted barrel is stiffer than a non fluted barrel, becuase it isnt, and Harold goes into great detail on that subject, even before reading that however I knew that to be true, I'm a machinist, anytime you remove metal from itself you weaken it, only thing it does do between non-fulted and fulted is less barrel droop under its own weight, but placing a ten pound weight on the end of identical barrels but one having fluting, the fluted barrel will sag more.
I see you are arguing Bounty Hunter over really far out non LONG RANGE HUNTING related stuff, I guess I was right, always like it when that happens.
Heres another thing,
A) Many of us here are not SNIEPRS
B) We are not "mission orientated"
C) I guess you could consider our game the ENEMY but more often that not Elk, White Tail, or Mulies dont carry weapons, its not the other way around here were arent going to be killed if we miss
D) Our equipment is nothing like SNIPER equipment, I doubt very much Darryl, Len, or Dave drag their large barreled rifle in an Eagle drag bag and dress up in Ghille suites crawling all over the rockies.
E) It would be best if you once again took notice of the forums name "LONG RANGE HUNTING"
F) The Elk, White Tail or Mulie wont run back to the heard for tactical ops against us if we miss a shot no need to fear for our lives.

"My hypocrisy knows no bounds"

I should use that as my departing statement, if I have taken anything away from this board since you graced its site that would be the one thing, a great ending line.
Thank you S1.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:53 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northwest MN
Posts: 76
Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )

Hey, S1!

Thanks for gettin` back with me. You'd laugh your rear off if I mentioned the velocities I'm planning on pushing those pills &lt;are ya` ready?...&gt; How about a whopping, static-sizzling speed of not 22, not 24, not 26, but an AMAZING 2800 feet per second. Hot on the heals of the mighty 250-3000... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Ah, it's a goofy project for low noise, intermediate &lt;out to 600 yards&gt; range. However, I wish someone out there would post some info on berger's 180 gr VLD in 7mm--I think the sucker's got an advertised BC of .69, or .7, something like that. I would like to work with something like the Patriot case necked to 7mm, or the Tomahawk &lt;Lazzeroni's version, altered to utilize a 34-38 degree shoulder.&gt; I like my cartridges opposite of my women {psychological balance, I call it}; short and fat.

I know you've mentioned making a muzzle break that reduces the rotational moment on the barrel, which I follow the concept in basics, I think. Have you tried any methods of shock-absorbtion in the bi-pods themselves? [i.e. high density materials encased in a rubber, or rubberize composite, or something that might work as a piston? &lt;the last idea I don't look at as being successful, because, from my experience, you have to make it so damned perfect &lt;and thus, expensive&gt; as to keep dirt out and also able to work in extreme cold. &lt;sighs&gt; I'd enjoy a break, but I don't like noise. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img]) Now, if you want to convert a suppression device for me that may work on a partisan-principle of the aforementioned break of yours...I wouldn't be able to resist! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

A good topic, though, on the torque reduction; is the torque effect magnified off a hard surface? I like technical details! &lt;don't grasp `em, but I like `em anyhow!&gt;

The Zebra
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Unread 01-12-2003, 01:35 AM
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Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )


I am so impressed. Could you tell us more about your brake designs and how if you did not invent it, it could not possibly work?

I think that you should build one of those designs you like so much and show us all how it works. At least you would be doing something positive. You and a couple others have been bullying people that you do not agree with for quite some time on this forum.

Your inability to discuss technical issues without becoming rude or vulgar is revealing about your lack of desire to help people learn, share ideas, and trade information.

The moderators tolerance of your childish outbursts, speaks to their patience and desire to include everyone. Perhaps you should honor them and be more respectful, and I will try to behave myself too. There might just be enough room for everyone's ideas, it would sure be easier to stay on subject if you and a couple of others would stop beating your chests so hard. You can't bully me so don't even try.

Back to the subject:

The extra weight on the end does change the amplitude of the vibrations, the inertia of the gas forced ahead of the bullet, combined with the inertia of the gas that is leaking around the bullet does serve to reduce both the amplitude and lower the frequency slightly. For those of you that doubt gas leaks around the bullet, you can review photos of bullets exiting muzzles and see for yourself.

As far as the stiffness issue goes, anyone knows that a barrel can be made stiffer by starting with a larger diameter and fluting, a larger diameter barrel fluted to weigh the same as a smaller diameter barrel is stiffer than the smaller diameter unfluted barrel.

The rigidity of a beam rises exponentially with percent increase in diameter. Most fluting designs cause less rigidity loss than is gained by the increase in diameter, this is why an I beam is stiffer than a solid rectangle of the same weight and length.

Just because someone hunts with a bipod, does not mean they crawl around in a Ghillie Suit. Although I am pleased that you have heard the term. Many snipers do not use bipods, the ruck or natural terrain is utilized. Something many hunters have done and do in a pinch. As far as the elk shooting back, that is really funny, reminds me of an old Far Side Comic. I am done arguing with bh, he bores me, I doubt he has ever made a 1 minute clock hand, much less a rifle or bullet. You on the other hand, are damn funny, I enjoy what you write even when it is rude. I am just not sure what every one else will tolerate. So head back to the barn, don't forget to close the door, and cut back on the Saki until the animals stop shootin back! But you keep firing away, it always makes me smile. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
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Unread 01-12-2003, 09:11 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )


D) Our equipment is nothing like SNIPER equipment, I doubt very much Darryl, Len, or Dave drag their large barreled rifle in an Eagle drag bag and dress up in Ghille suites crawling all over the rockies.

I'm not contradicting your statement directly as I don't use the ghillie for hunting but I do use other gear. It did cause me to chuckle a little in remembrance of some of the fiaso's I got into.

I do have some "play gear" I needed for a class, I don't wear the ghillie for hunting, too hot and it gets full of little critters and poison ivy. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I gave away my last two Eagle drag bags to the outfitter and guide in Alberta, I'll get more as they're nice for hunting too.

The drag bag I have pictured here is a Tony Pallini (spelling) custom design. The rifle can be shot while still in the bag, there is not much padding though and a few dragging trips over the rocks will add some character marks to your rifle and scope.

This was my first ghillie and I learned a good deal making it. First lesson is, once the suit is complete you'll need cut away about 50% of the garnish for it to be of any practical value.

Second lesson, button are a bad thing when you are required to lay and crawl on them.

Third thing, netting gets caught on things, try crawling through a jumble of sticks and you'll be caught like a finger in a Chinese finger trap.

Fourth thing, plants wilt fast in hot weather and they never move very far or fast (fresh or wilted).


If you could please, give us hunters a little break.... we're probably a bit different that many of the folks you may routinely deal with and are accustomed to. We're not lace panties types either (well, maybe some of us [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ) we're hunters, not SF troops. We do things the way we've gradually experienced and learned, we have the luxury of not being killed on the many F-ups made during the learning cycle. I for one greatly enjoy your posts and information, and I suspect others extract a fair amount of knowledge, pleasure and entertainment from your posts too.. Thanks Dave "Lacy Panties" "Doc" King
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Unread 01-12-2003, 09:45 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: LUCKY.....GROUP......CLUB ( BI - PODS - ..ONLY )

To all.

I think Dave said it well.

I for one do not want to see anyone leave the forum because of remarks said to or about them.

I also would not want to continue to see remarks made to the guilty party either in an open forum.
Anyone who does this should calm down, take a deep breath and post something educational and useful to everyone.

If someone has a problem with a remark made to or about them, it can be addressed sort of, "man to man," in a private Email or even phone call.

This is a great forum for the exchange of ideas and procedures. Some have certain ways of doing "their thing" for many years in the longrange fields and others have their ways.

Both , if done correctly, will give success with pleanty of practice.

We are all after the SAME result. That is to kill an animal at Long and Extreme longrange. This is why the forum is called "Longrange Hunting"

Lets keep it that way guys----PLEASE.

Later and Good Shooing to All.
Darryl Cassel [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

PS. Lets kiss and make up "NOW" and go out and burn some powder. It will do all of us good. I'm getting cabin fever myself.

Look out though if your shooting close to me. The smell of burning powder makes me horney. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Darryl Cassel
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