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Lothar Walther barrels

 
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2013, 07:35 PM
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
(C&P)

The materials used at Lothar Walther fall into two categories. The normal steel barrels, those which require bluing are made from LW19, a chrome-molybdenum type steel. The stainless steels, which do not require bluing are LW6, which is used mainly for .22l.r. and similar cartridges and LW50 which is used for centerfire cartridges. This last material was developed in 1994-95 as a safe alternative to 416R and to solve durability problems associated with 416R. LW50 can be used in all calibers and all contours.

(Lothar Walther)

Supposedly, machining instructions are included on every barrels ordered.

ADDED:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=26645.0

The Hendrix Group > Resources > Material Property Data > Stainless Steel Data > Stainless Steel Compositions
Walter's LW series is his own trade mark. It will cross pretty much the same as 17PH4. Read the post on that site, and at least one has everything he wrote backwards and pretty much incorrect.

* if the metal will harden it will rust. I don't care whatkind of steel it is. That's a given. Put a piece of 416 or 440 as he said in deionized water and watch it rust (deionized water is without any trace elements, and often is used to test the rust resistence of metal because it works faster) With 440C that's hardened, it will rust pretty quickly in deionized water (about a week). But the downside of this is that it will also develope cracks in the metal. I learned the hardway with it. 17ph4 and it's clones (there is more than one) comes in a pretreat state, and usually rockwells in the 30-32rc area. I know of at least one supplier that will sell it to you in a certified lot that's harder and softer as well. It will not rust in deionized water for at least a year or more!

* Walter is not the only person selling barrels made of 17PH4, and I know of two right off the bat. It's a metal that must be sheared off the parent rather than pushed off like most inserts do. I never had a need to gun drill the stuff, but can easilly see that it would be a learning experience!

* the main advantage of 17PH4 and 18-5 is their granular structure after heat treating, and as an ingot too. This of course is very important in high stress areas like landing gear struts (what it was developed for). The metal is very tough, and takes a learning curve to learn how to work with it. But still nothing like Hestalloy.
gary
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:11 PM
Edd Edd is offline
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

BlackStar Rifle Barrels and Accurizing
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:00 PM
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
Walter's LW series is his own trade mark. It will cross pretty much the same as 17PH4. Read the post on that site, and at least one has everything he wrote backwards and pretty much incorrect.

* if the metal will harden it will rust. I don't care whatkind of steel it is. That's a given. Put a piece of 416 or 440 as he said in deionized water and watch it rust (deionized water is without any trace elements, and often is used to test the rust resistence of metal because it works faster) With 440C that's hardened, it will rust pretty quickly in deionized water (about a week). But the downside of this is that it will also develope cracks in the metal. I learned the hardway with it. 17ph4 and it's clones (there is more than one) comes in a pretreat state, and usually rockwells in the 30-32rc area. I know of at least one supplier that will sell it to you in a certified lot that's harder and softer as well. It will not rust in deionized water for at least a year or more!

* Walter is not the only person selling barrels made of 17PH4, and I know of two right off the bat. It's a metal that must be sheared off the parent rather than pushed off like most inserts do. I never had a need to gun drill the stuff, but can easilly see that it would be a learning experience!

* the main advantage of 17PH4 and 18-5 is their granular structure after heat treating, and as an ingot too. This of course is very important in high stress areas like landing gear struts (what it was developed for). The metal is very tough, and takes a learning curve to learn how to work with it. But still nothing like Hestalloy.
gary
Gary,

Understand the LW part but it widens the search. BTW, excellent info.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

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Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Gary,

Understand the LW part but it widens the search. BTW, excellent info.
I had to learn on the fly with this stuff. Managed to get ahold of Vito Mitkus, and he made some calls to the right people to get me headed in the right direction. Vito was extremely knowledgable in stainless alloys, but was not upto par with machining it. (what he said anyway). I pretty much knew about the rust factor from classes he taught me years prior, never heard of these new series of stainless steels (I think there is also a 15-5 and maybe one with higher number than 18-5).

I'd give you exact specs on machining the stuff, but I'm bound by a "non disclosure agreement" with an attached penalty, and also a similar device from TACOM. So that's why I was somewhat vague. Best data will probably come from Valenite or Kenmetal, and I'll stop at that. Lastly the metal is pretty hard on machinery unless it's over built. Really hates light cuts. If you ever decide to make parts out of 17PH4, the best I found is MAR-10 from Baldwin Steel in PA. Be prepaired to pay thru the nose as it's pretty expensive! But as bad as I've made it out to be, It's nothing compaired to Hestalloy castings!! I don't wish that stuff on anybody
gary
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2013, 07:48 PM
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

Gary,

I fully understand and knows about non-disclosure agreements ... I've signed quite a few of them in the US Air Force.

Thanks for sharing.

Ed
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: Lothar Walther barrels

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Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Gary,

I fully understand and knows about non-disclosure agreements ... I've signed quite a few of them in the US Air Force.

Thanks for sharing.

Ed
actually the lable "industrial espionage" is even worse, and a felony. The TACOM stuff is secondary to the penaltys involved. The stuff with Hestalloy was furnished by TACOM thru another federal wing. The only thing I've seen tighter than these two is Chobham Armor plate.

I think most all of my life's work has been a constant learning experience
gary
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