Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics


Reply

Long Range thick skin bullets

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #57  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:03 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SOCIALIST CONTROLLED TERRITORY OF NEW YORK
Posts: 4,391
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
380 lb animal to 280gr bullet? Not intending to offend, but I see no proportional comparison to be made by looking at the photo of your doe. A typical weight of a hind leg on a mature bull moose where I live is on the order of 105 to 125 lbs from the knee joint up to the hip socket and ham - skinned and trimmed. But that same leg on an enormous bull moose can weigh much more. That's solid meat. Not low density lung tissue. It's possible to get more than 700 lbs of boned out meat off an exceptionally large bull. The rear leg on one of these large bulls will approach the weight or your entire doe. A large Alaskan bull moose will make an elk look like your doe - as far as proportional comparisons go.

I shot a 62" bull moose with a 210gr Barnes-X bullet from a .338-378 Weatherby in '94. Distance was 630 yds. First shot was a killing shot thru the ribs, but I couldn't be sure about the placement of the bullet at that range. Second shot the bull was facing directly away. The bullet entered just left of the butt hole, pulverized the ball socket - turning it into bone meal, and was found adjacent to the rear wall of the stomach/paunch when the animal was field dressed. It never even made it to the guts. Gut cavity was clean as a whistle. I estimated the total depth of penetration at about 12". This from a bullet that retained all four petals and near 100% of its original weight.
Well I thought it was but I can see your point
__________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
If you want to shoot Bergers start here!
http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...accuracy-1.php
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:13 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,822
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

I have only shot one moose in my time hunting so far. I was shooting my 7mm AM loaded with a 160 gr Accubond loaded to 3400 fps. The bull was at 150 yards on the first shot which was just behind the shoulder broadside. The bull flinched a bit and started walking with no sign of reaction. Second shot was again through both lungs, with no sign of hit at all other then knocking the dust off him.

Third shot was after a decent wait and I pinned both shoulders and be fell on his nose. We gave him 15 minutes and walked up to him. He was still alive and needed a finisher. Was this bullet failure, hardly. Both shots through the lungs stopped just under the hide on the off side. The shot through both shoulders was found stopped just past the offside shoulder bone in the shoulder meat.

Tissue damage, perfect. There as a fist diameter wound channel with both rounds through the lungs. It was straight and consistant on both lots of damage. Same with the shoulder hit but not as dramatic through the chest cavity.

I was perfectly happy with the bullets performance. What surprised me was how slow the metabolism of these animals is. That and they have HUGE lung capacity, HUGE blood supply and very low metabolism. This adds up to them being able to take serious amounts of vital damage and still it takes them a lot of time to actually die.

Now, from what I have heard, moose are not terribly tough like a bull elk can be to put down or a full rut whitetail can be from time to time to kill. Moose seem to hurt easily but can be a pain to kill, or at least can take some time to kill quickly. Like everything, some fall on their nose at the first shot, some do not, it should not be expected.

Three shots to kill a big moose does not sound terrible to me personally. Especially when most of us will keep shooting as quickly as possible on heavier game just to do as much damage to the vitals as possible in the short time we have when shooting at big game.

Personally, the choice to go with the 250 gr is a poor decision as likely the 300 gr at Lapua velocities would have performed perfectly.

For water buff, I assume this we are not talking Asianic and not cape buffalo. If Cape, Not sure where its even legal to hunt them with a 338 but I am sure it is somewhere. If I were to do that or have a customer come to me asking for my opinion on which bullet to use it would be the 285 gr Barnes TSX or the 270 gr Swift A-Frame.

There comes a time when you have to chose between long range performance and big game stopping performance. If you want to combine the two, its a good idea to step up in caliber. At long range on heavy game, even the mighty 338 Lapua is not excessively powerful.

Still, if the 338 Lapua was the chambering being used, I would start with one of the above bullets. After seeing recently what a bullet with a BC of .425 did at slightly over 1000 yards, I think one would be much better off getting a bullet that WILL get the job done no matter what, then test it and learn what it will and will not do at longer ranges. The results will be much better that way. Again, its difficult to get ONE bullet that will expand well at long range, soft impacts as well as hold together and penetrate well on close range, high velocity, hard impacts.

To get this, there are compromises that have to be made. Anytime there is a compromise, there is an OPPORTUNITY, for something to happen that someone could describe as a failure when in fact it really is not.

On heavy game, prepare for the close range hard impact and make due at longer ranges. This may mean you give up some extreme range distance with the combo but the alternative is far less acceptable.
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:21 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western PA
Posts: 183
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

I have bullet pics Long Range thick skin bullets-image.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:23 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western PA
Posts: 183
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Second bulletLong Range thick skin bullets-image.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:24 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 575
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Camilleri View Post
I just moved my deer quarters from the ice chest to the freeze to get it ready for processing and low and behold, I saw the remainder of my 300 gr Berger OTM on the surface of the off shoulder. I haven't weighed it yet but it feels pretty good. There is a small piece of lead with it also. Expanded size is close to 1.5 inches. When I butcher later today, I will find out if the bullet broke the off side shoulder blade. Again, my opinion on Bergers is for 338 use the 300 gr.
I just got done butchering my deer. The bullet entered in the on side shoulder totally shattering it. It exited through the meat on the off side shoulder missing the bone and coming to rest under the hide. This was a 300 pound muley so total penetration would be estimated at 14 to 16 inches. All in all, I am very happy with the performance of the 300 gr Berger. It actually looks better than my 225 accubonds that I have recovered from similar shots. I wouldn't hesitate to use this bullet on a moose. I just don't think the 250 grain has enough reserve weight to get the penetration needed for an animal as large as a moose.
__________________
Remington model 700 300 RUM LH 26" rem ss/blued receiver lam stock 215 Berger @3025/180 NAB @3300
Remington model 700 338 RUM LH 27" Broughton 5C 225NAB@3300 /300gr Berger@2830
Savage LH 22-250
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:30 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western PA
Posts: 183
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Ok first and second shot were behind the ribs on a hard quartering away shot bullets entered had approx eight inches of penetration then failed no bones hit. Bullets did not make it to the diaphragm. Pic one is this bullet. Pic two was a neck shot side of neck penetration was approx 6 inches then stopped. 250 berger OTM at 2915 FPS.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:47 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,892
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

This might have been brought up already, but has the OP tried the Berger Target bullets over the hunting versions? They have a thicker jacket than the hunting versions.
__________________
"I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns..." - Bob Lee Swagger

"Give me a minute...I'm good. Give me an hour...I'm great. Give me 6 months...And I'm unbeatable." - Col. Hannibal Smith

Ignore everything I say, because I have a reading comprehension and memory problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC