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Long Range thick skin bullets

 
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  #36  
Old 09-21-2013, 06:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,953
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

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Originally Posted by stenger View Post
All I can say is I use Bergers a lot and I am very happy. When used on this moose penetration was lacking and the bullets split in half bullets shot into heavy game should not spilt in half. Two people are not happy the guy who shot, and the guide. This guy has shot just about every big game animal including grizzly he has never had a problem but the first animal shot with the Bergers and he was calling me about the bullets. He was using barnes bullets but we switched bullets for this hunt in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC. I am writing this with twenty years of reloading and long range hunting experience. I think berger makes an outstanding bullet but I wanted to pass on the info so this does not happen to anyone else. Just might want to re-think using a berger on moose. If it works for you then shoot away. The bullet was a 250 OTM used specifically for the thicker jacket. When I get pics ill post them.
If the bullets broke in half, that almost sounds like no expansion resulting in tumbling. Bullet pictures would be great. Wound pics would be nice too.
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
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re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by stenger View Post
This guy has shot just about every big game animal including grizzly he has never had a problem but the first animal shot with the Bergers and he was calling me about the bullets. He was using Barnes bullets but we switched bullets for this hunt in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC.

Just might want to re-think using a Berger on moose. If it works for you then shoot away. The bullet was a 250 OTM used specifically for the thicker jacket. When I get pics ill post them.
The Berger bullets are at the opposite end of the bullet toughness scale from the Barnes monolithic bullets. The Barnes TSX might retain close to 100% of its original weight, while the Berger could fragment and shrapnel in solid muscle hits so much that it may be difficult to find any large pieces of bullet. If your buddy is used to shooting large game with Barnes bullets, then he may have employed similar shot placement, and expected similar on-game performance from the Berger. He may have selected an initial aiming point far better suited for the Barnes TSX than for a highly frangible Berger at a relatively close range/high speed impact. At the minimum, it wouldn't be surprising that you'd get a call shortly after he compared the Berger wound channel to prior experiences with a Barnes TSX wound channel.

These bullet performance Threads draw a lot of attention and are always interesting and often educational. Lots of members will appreciate your sharing any wound or bullet photos your buddy may have taken, with whatever additional description he can provide of the three separate shots.
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  #38  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,394
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by stenger View Post
All I can say is I use Bergers a lot and I am very happy. When used on this moose penetration was lacking and the bullets split in half bullets shot into heavy game should not spilt in half. Two people are not happy the guy who shot, and the guide. This guy has shot just about every big game animal including grizzly he has never had a problem but the first animal shot with the Bergers and he was calling me about the bullets. He was using barnes bullets but we switched bullets for this hunt in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC. I am writing this with twenty years of reloading and long range hunting experience. I think berger makes an outstanding bullet but I wanted to pass on the info so this does not happen to anyone else. Just might want to re-think using a berger on moose. If it works for you then shoot away. The bullet was a 250 OTM used specifically for the thicker jacket. When I get pics ill post them.
Stenger....I wasn't suggesting that any of your buddies shots would have brought down the moose but was referring to my situation. I don't have enough info to make a judgement about his......Rich
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western PA
Posts: 183
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

He said he has all three bullets. As soon as I get them ill post.

There is some great discussion on this

Very interesting

Thanks.
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 59
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

I love these thread and was like others refraining but I have lost my self control lol. I am gonna chime in now. Granted both these situations at on brown bears not moose. So the first bear I killed was with a 30.06 and a 168 Amax. One shot at 10 yards full on charge by a 8'11" bear. Shot was mid chest like I said running straight at me. Had just enough time to get my gun up and fire once it was dead before it stopped sliding ending up right at my feet. Haha needless to say I needed clean drawers.

Second bear I was out with a buddy on another bear hunt. We saw two bears working down a beach about a mile or so out. Got the boat around the bend from them down wind and made our stock to try and beat them to a rocky point. As we were making our way to the beach I told my buddy when we get up there we have to kill this bear on the beach if he gets up in the trees we at screwed, (super thick and bears everywhere). So he says well if I shoot and it runs you shoot too. Well we get to the point wind is in our face bears 30 yards away. He nods he wants to take it and he shoots it blows out and starts running I shoot twice and he shoots again. So four shots all on the shoulder with 338's. I was shooting reloads in both situations 168 Amax in one and 250 game kings in the second he was shooting factory loads with a Barnes bullet I believe. His bear was much smaller and took 4 we'll placed shots.

So I guess its kind of a crap shoot, sometimes things don't work out the way you think they will.
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  #41  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,394
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by badandy970 View Post
I love these thread and was like others refraining but I have lost my self control lol. I am gonna chime in now. Granted both these situations at on brown bears not moose. So the first bear I killed was with a 30.06 and a 168 Amax. One shot at 10 yards full on charge by a 8'11" bear. Shot was mid chest like I said running straight at me. Had just enough time to get my gun up and fire once it was dead before it stopped sliding ending up right at my feet. Haha needless to say I needed clean drawers.

Second bear I was out with a buddy on another bear hunt. We saw two bears working down a beach about a mile or so out. Got the boat around the bend from them down wind and made our stock to try and beat them to a rocky point. As we were making our way to the beach I told my buddy when we get up there we have to kill this bear on the beach if he gets up in the trees we at screwed, (super thick and bears everywhere). So he says well if I shoot and it runs you shoot too. Well we get to the point wind is in our face bears 30 yards away. He nods he wants to take it and he shoots it blows out and starts running I shoot twice and he shoots again. So four shots all on the shoulder with 338's. I was shooting reloads in both situations 168 Amax in one and 250 game kings in the second he was shooting factory loads with a Barnes bullet I believe. His bear was much smaller and took 4 we'll placed shots.

So I guess its kind of a crap shoot, sometimes things don't work out the way you think they will.
How did the gamekings perform? Did you recover any.......Rich
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  #42  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 575
re: Long Range thick skin bullets

I love these type of threads also. Sometimes it is impossible to know why a bullet works so well one time and performs terribly the next. Examining the wound channel does however give a clue. If the bullet doesn't make it to the vitals, that is in my opinion a failure, but if it does massive amounts of damage to the vitals and the animal doesn't go right down, then what would you say then? There is a fine line on what bullet design is best. I have shot bull elk with 250 gr partitions that did ample damage to the shoulder on the entrance, but the frontal portion of the bullet came apart in the shoulder only leaving the shank to penetrate to the vitals. Not my preference, but the bull died. Another example was with a 225 gr Barnes X that hit a big mule deer through both lungs at 550 yards. The deer ran off. I finally found it the next day and when I gutted the deer I found that the bullet penciled through without causing any tissue damage at all. With the Berger, I believe that heaviest possible bullet for caliber works well to make sure you have a good chance at good penetration on the close shots and also drives deep on the longer shots. I have a very hard time deciding what bullet to have in my gun when hunting in Grizzly country, because a bullet failure could be very painful or worse.
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Remington model 700 300 RUM LH 26" rem ss/blued receiver lam stock 215 Berger @3025/180 NAB @3300
Remington model 700 338 RUM LH 27" Broughton 5C 225NAB@3300 /300gr Berger@2830
Savage LH 22-250
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