Location: SOCIALIST CONTROLLED TERRITORY OF NEW YORK
re: Long Range thick skin bullets
Originally Posted by stenger
I am just getting the reports back from Alaska now. They got the moose took three shots. 338 lapua mag at 2900 fps. I was advised that the bullets split in half and lost penetration. No war is intended just giving a report from the field. This guy wants to shoot a water buffalo with this rifle and is unhappy with the bullets results. I have no experience with game of this size. Looking for a bullet that can keep some long range ability but perform on big animals.
So just to be clear, I am picking this apart. I think you got yourself into a situation by not gathering all the facts before posting the info. From what you have reported thus far, the Bergers worked as the animal was harvested. The bullet may not have produced the bang flop results popularized on TV adds or in hunting shows, but they still worked. Remember we are talking about a huge animal and a high adrenaline hunting situation, that no doubt if your friend is not a resident of Alaska cost some very big money! With what we know at this point, there is no reason to assume that the first round did not kill the animal and the subconscious fear of lost money or trophy did not come into play, with regard to him firing the subsequent 2 rounds.
What we don't know and still remains unclear is what bullet was it? The OTM, Hybrid or the tactical....... I will admit I am a Berger bullet fan and have never experienced any of these situations myself. I know the bullets differences and there uses, I do use other bullets myself and would have chosen to load a Barnes for the ranges and animals your friend just experienced.
I know this discussion is about 250 gr Bergers and while I only shoot the 300 gr from my 338 ultra, the performance can vary. Here is a picture of a big muley that I just harvested a few days ago with my closest shot to date, 80 yards. 300 gr otm @ 2830. Bullet didn't exit, but a caliber hole was found in the off shoulder and I might find a piece of jacket in the meat when I butcher it. Entrance hole was caliber and destruction internally was extreme. For what it is worth, buck didn't even flinch, DRT, same result as a big bodied bull elk last year at 550 yards, fastest DRT on an elk that I have ever seen. Both of these shots were rib shots.
Remington model 700 300 RUM LH 26" rem ss/blued receiver lam stock 215 Berger @3070/180 NAB @3300
Remington model 700 338 RUM LH 26" Bartlein 5C #4 Muscle Brake, blueprinted action, sako extractor, jewell trigger, bell and carlson Alaskan stock
Savage LH 22-250
I'm willing to bet that ICANHITHIMMAN was right. I live in central B.C where moose hunting is pretty common. Out of al the moose I have seen shot, the only ones that go down fast are hit in the CNS.; Guides will always tell you to keep shooting because they don't care about meat, they want that moose to die somewhere other than a swamp.
I'd bet that if left alone for another minute that moose would have laid down and died.
For whatever its worth, I shot a 44" Shiras, which is by no means an Alaskan moose, but a large animal nevertheless. I shot him at 400 yards with my 195 SXR's which I will readily admit is not a Moose bullet. This moose lived 1/2 mile from my house and I knew what the shot would likely be. I intentionally stayed away from the shoulder but just behind. I was shooting a 30" barreled 300 RUM with a muzzle velocity of 3350' so the impact velocity was around 2900'. The moose was on a ridgetop with a steep ravine well with his reach. The first shot he never moved but I was sure of a good hit. I shot again and he took a step or two. I shot the third and fourth rounds because the last thing I wanted to do was to pack him out of that hole when I could get my quad to right where he was. The fourth shot dropped him. When I gutted him out, there was an approx. 5-6" group right behind his shoulder. His heart and lungs looked like he had inhaled a grenade! None of the bullets made it past the far rib cage, but all traveled through the vitals. My point is, moose are tough, and as the above poster said, any one of the shots would probably have killed him in short time. I have also seen a few elk do this, but not to that extent. I will let everyone else decide whether or not a Berger is a moose bullet!. By the way, my attempt at humor (above) was not an attack on any bullet or person in particular. It's just that I have seen so many of these bullet discussions get ridiculous over the years......rich
All I can say is I use Bergers a lot and I am very happy. When used on this moose penetration was lacking and the bullets split in half bullets shot into heavy game should not spilt in half. Two people are not happy the guy who shot, and the guide. This guy has shot just about every big game animal including grizzly he has never had a problem but the first animal shot with the Bergers and he was calling me about the bullets. He was using barnes bullets but we switched bullets for this hunt in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC. I am writing this with twenty years of reloading and long range hunting experience. I think berger makes an outstanding bullet but I wanted to pass on the info so this does not happen to anyone else. Just might want to re-think using a berger on moose. If it works for you then shoot away. The bullet was a 250 OTM used specifically for the thicker jacket. When I get pics ill post them.