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Long Range Bullets and Terminal Performance

 
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  #43  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
IMO, while the E-Tip did not open great ( @1800 fps) in the previous picture, it did attain a blunt surface.
Also IMO, if a monolithic copper will open that much, a ballistic tip is going to be a whole lot better! To my eye there is just no comparison as to ease of opening between the E-Tip and Accubond.

edge.
It would seem that the AB bullet would open easier than the E-Tip, but the E-Tip's cavity may help a lot. Also if friction heat does soften the jacket the AB has a thinner *jacket* which might give it an advantage downrange. But the E-Tip's better BC gives it a few (40) yards more opening range. Picking at straws now. They probably both warrant testing.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2008, 09:36 AM
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While I have heard that friction can soften a lead bullet, I am very very skeptical! Bore friction may allow gas cutting, but air friction does not make sense to me.

I suspect that the Plastic Ballistic Tip will become soft at under 400 degrees F, perhaps even melt. I have recovered numerous Plastic tips from animals and they almost look as if they could be reused!

If Plastic does not melt, the Copper can't be getting hot enough to make it open quicker...IMO

edge.
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  #45  
Old 06-09-2008, 05:13 PM
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If Plastic does not melt, the Copper can't be getting hot enough to make it open quicker...IMO

edge.
You make a good point, but... will the jacket heat enough to unfold @ 1600 fps vs 1800 fps?

This prompted me to do a search and I found this. I think it's interesting.

Quote:
Calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin literally pulls heat away from the Blended Metal Technology (BMT) bullet as the bullet passes through it. This results in the BMT bullet remaining intact, and not going frangible like it would in living tissue. Live/living tissue, with its much higher temparature, has a totally different effect on the Le Mas/RBCD BMT rounds. A living body's heat is the necessary mechanism for the LeMas/RBCD Blended Metal Technology (BMT) SPLP bullet to deploy as it was designed to do.
Defense Review - Le Mas Ltd. Blended Metal Technology Ammo vs. ADS Transparent Armor: AFJI Video!

Maybe this is why we see better than advertised bullet performance in game?
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  #46  
Old 06-09-2008, 09:40 PM
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If I assume that heat is pulled away vs the heat of the work involved, then perhaps the tooth fairy is real!

I don't belittle you, but I do find that work suspect!

IMO, +- 30 degrees will make a bullet stay together or come apart, that defies the laws of physics. IMO, that would completely nullify Ballistic Gelatin's use.

edge.
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  #47  
Old 06-09-2008, 11:47 PM
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I'm not a PHD in physics but I do know the basics. I'm just trying to figure out why hunters in the field are getting different expansion results than the manufacturers in with their test procedures.

Nosler advertises an expansion vel of 1800 fps for bith the E-Tip and the AB. In the picture of the E-Tip, we can see it barely opened at 1800. I would think the same would be true of the AB. IF the AB actaully opened at 1600 fps or less, I would think Nosler would advertise that because it would be a good selling point in a competitive market. So my question is, what's the diff?

I'm just guessing.

The video in the article above is very interesting. Those particular bullets will penetrate steel armor intact but come apart when shot through drywall. One would think just the opposite with a *basic* knowledge of physics. They clain it's about different heat transfer properties. Very interesting.
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2008, 03:43 AM
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MontanaRifleman,

I don't think it's realistic to hold Nosler to 1800 fps on the money. I believe Nosler has provided their best estimate of the velocity required to ensure expansion on big game animals. They don't say their bullets will never open up at 1799 fps, 1699 fps, or 1599 fps. There's a lot of different mixtures of bone, muscle, hide, blood, and guts in any animal. I believe where you hit them will play a significant role in an expanding bullets performance. Again, I believe Nosler's trying to give us their best guidance and recommendation, and they've picked a number that won't result in a bunch of dissatisfied customers. Which means you'll be pretty safe at 1800 fps. Go less than 1800 fps and get poor performance and Nosler will say they warned you. Just my 0.02 cents worth of thoughts on the matter.

And just to demonstrate that there are no guarantees with expanding bullet performance, I shot a Dall sheep at 13 yards with a .280 RCBS improved using a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip straight through the middle of the ribs and lungs and that bullet never expanded with a muzzle velocity of ~2975 fps. Go figure. The animal trotted off 80-100 yds and bedded down and got sicker and sicker but didn't expire. After about 25 minutes, I'd seen enough. I kept thinking the animal had to expire because I saw the red blood dots in perfect position on both sides of the ribs for a double lung shot. I walked down to finish him off and when I got within about 10 yds he jumped up in an adrenaline rush and took off. My second shot was a quartering away shot into the back edge of the onside ribs. That BT expanded and flattened the ram like a piledriver. Instant lights out.
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2008, 07:55 AM
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IMO, shooting a bullet at steel almost always results in a splat or an almost perfectly round hole.
I bet that the steel being so tough, surrounds the bullet and tends to hold it in a columnar shape as it drives straight through.
The drywall, on the other hand has no such compressive ability.

I don't think that I can stabilize the AB at low velocity since my rifle is a 1:14 twist. Perhaps when the weather breaks here I can try to shoot a reduced load into wet newspaper. If I can launch it at 1500 fps and it is stable that would be about 750 ft/lbs.
If it hits nose first I guess we will have our answer.

edge.
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