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Long range barrel profile

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Unread 02-26-2006, 02:47 PM
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Re: Long range barrel profile

50, i'm not trying to speak for Bart but it seems everyone is misquoting him.he never said a thinner barrel was as strong or wouldn't flex any more than a heavier contour would. my understanding of his statements were that a heavier barrel wouldn't necessarily shoot better than a thin one and a win receiver was stronger by vertue of measuring flex under far as direction of oscilation in the barrel goes,i've seen several finite element examples and every one showed the barrel moving in a verticle path.with that said these were all smaller cartridges. as you stated, with large capacity cases and big bullets,this might change things with the imparted torque,especially with the faster twists we use.
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    Unread 02-26-2006, 07:42 PM
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    Re: Long range barrel profile

    [ QUOTE ]
    These loads were tested in several Palma rifles with different actions but all had 5- to 6-pound 30-inch barrels with tapers much like those I mentioned earlier about 1.2 inches at the back and about .800 at the muzzle.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think this may be the root of all the misunderstanding here. Not meaning to flame anyone, but this is LONG RANGE HUNTING, not long range Palma. Many principles of Palma do not correlate directly to benchrest or 1k br or hunting. Typically, when people here speak of skinny barrels, we are talking about .5" muzzles in #4-6 contours. Not barrels that are 30 inches long and .8"+ at the muzzle! THis is roughly the size of my 1760 yard 6.5-.284 that weighs in at 20 pounds! I wouldn't ever call this a pencil barrel. It (and the barrels you used in your example) obviously have enough rigidity to shoot small groups consistently <font color="red">because they are not whippy. </font> If this had been established at the first, this whole thing could have been recognized earlier as a incorrect use of terms rather than a debate about fundamental principles of metallurgy!

    ALso you state:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Consider what happened in 1991. The US Palma Team Captain asked in late 1990 if I and several other former Palma team members would help develop the ammo to be used for the 1992 World Long Range and Palma Championships.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again, not to hurt anyones feelings, but Palma ain't the end all solve all of disciplines. There are things done there that would never be utilized in any other shooting sport. ANd, many many things have changed even in Palma since 1991. A dozen new powders have been introduced, a couple dozen new cartridges have proven themselves worthy of 30+ new world records, several different experiments in twist rates and barrel making procedures have revolutionized the industry, and a host of new bullets with extra long coefficients have been utilized to attain accuracy that was thought 15 years ago to be impossible.

    ANd one last thing I would like to add. Today, I found a load in a 308 with 155 grain Berger VLDs and N133 that shot a standard deviation of 2 feet per second. Obviously, the bullets all left the barrel as close to the same velocity as one can humanly get. THe barrel measured .476" at the muzzle and was 22" long. Now, some might think that they should have gone in the same hole with them leaving the muzzle at virtually the same velocity. BUt, they DID NOT. It shot just over 1" at 100 yards.

    WHy? Because, the barrel and about 1 million other things factored into the reality that there are real world experiences and then there is armchair theory that looks good on paper.

    JUst my 2 cents.

    PS. BTW, my highly skilled, local gunsmith had a statistician and a structural engineer run the numbers on the REm 700 vs. the Win M70 and came up with differing results than what you have stated. SOme tests need to be run over and over again by different parties to be sure of a result. One individual test really doesn't mean piddly. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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    Unread 02-26-2006, 08:04 PM
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    Re: Long range barrel profile


    Well to that end I would agree to some point but still will say this. WHile accuracy of the two barrel types maybe the same in theory, in the real world we all know the case is not true.

    Perhaps it is the human eliment that results in the heavier barrels being consistantly more accurate then the light barrels, just easier to shoot.

    All I know is I will not be recommending #5 contour 30" barrels for my customers that want a 1000 yard rifle anytime soon [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!!

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
    Kirby Allen(50)

    Allen Precision Shooting
    Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

    Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

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    Unread 02-26-2006, 09:30 PM
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    Re: Long range barrel profile

    50, tend to agree with the human functionallity of it all. i need all the help i can get.i haven't found any machine clamps out in the woods yet so i'll stick with the heavier profiles.or would they be whippy, i'm not sure now!
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    Unread 02-26-2006, 09:44 PM
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    Re: Long range barrel profile

    Bart B,
    After my last post I swore to myself that I was done with this thread but after reading your post I could not help but make one last post. you did exactly what I asked of you and I respect you for that


    that is what this whole debacle is about,deal with REALITY
    not CONCEPT the people on LRH love that stuff

    I hope we can chat again on a more positive note (on another thread)
    DONE,done,out UB
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
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