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Light Varmint, where are you?

 
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2008, 12:37 PM
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
GG,

I know from the title of your thread that you are extremely anxious (probably sitting on the edge of your computer commando chair) to get the real live meat test results of the HAT bullets..... Well here it is as you requested and you owe Mr Tilley some money (Benjamins I think it was). The bullets expand predictably on even our smallish SC deer (even without hitting a bone) as they worked very well on the live meat test the other day. Seems as though sand boxes, phone books and plywood did not replicate the resistance of a live game animal with blood pressure present during bullet impacts. BTW, Army ordnance testers found this out several decades ago and that is why they used goats to test small arm ammunition. So with this actual meat test we proved three theories:

--We proved that the bullets worked as intended and designed.

--We proved that the above testing media (sandboxes, phonebooks and plywood) does not replicate live animal results.

--Wet clay formed to the desired dimensions of the penetration test is very close to live animal results.

Anyway, the bullet worked flawlessly (complete penetration, no blowup and excellent wound channel). In other words a bang-flop and the deer never took a step. It was a 405 yard shot from 24" factory 300 Win Mag Sendero special using a .308 180 grainer.

Even when I tried my first new fancy projectile or loaded ammo offering for the first time out of my guns on wild game, it was always an act of faith. Since there is always a first time, you never really know until it is attempted and proved one way or another by someone! I am sure the same thing will occur with the new bullet offerings and designs in the future.

Anyway, they work very well, thanks for your interest and have a nice day.

James

THat is so very interesting LV. Unfortunately, the word of a liar ain't much good around here no more. You should have had the slightest inclination that we were going to need real proof to believe your story after the crap you've tried to pass off to the good people here on this site. Just you saying "they worked" doesn't hold much water. We are going to need some better proof. Pictures, video, witness accounts, something. ANd preferrably more than one instance. I saw a FMJ kill a deer once. Doesn't mean that it was the right bullet. It meant that it killed one deer, from a neck shot.

So that puts us right back where we started....still waiting.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:39 PM
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

I don't care how good those bullets are I'd not buy any because of the lack of people skills and lack of class shown by the one promoting them. What an ASS IMHO
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Last edited by jwp475; 11-04-2008 at 05:10 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:15 PM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgrouper View Post
THat is so very interesting LV. Unfortunately, the word of a liar ain't much good around here no more. You should have had the slightest inclination that we were going to need real proof to believe your story after the crap you've tried to pass off to the good people here on this site. Just you saying "they worked" doesn't hold much water. We are going to need some better proof. Pictures, video, witness accounts, something. ANd preferrably more than one instance. I saw a FMJ kill a deer once. Doesn't mean that it was the right bullet. It meant that it killed one deer, from a neck shot.

So that puts us right back where we started....still waiting.
GG,

I am not inclined to jump through ridiculous hoops just to satisfy someone or even a few folks who are genuinely not interested in the outcome or the details (whether they are postive or negative). Pictures nor videos would probably not do you any good as I doubt you would believe them and you would probably claim they were false. If we had witnesses and signed statments I seriously doubt that you would believe them (you would probably claim that they were liars too) either and that is your perogative. But don't waste my time by starting a thread on a website calling me out and asking me for bullet test results and then when you get those results, claim someone is being dishonest because the test on a live deer with blood pressure present does not agree with your tests in a dry stack of phone books.

For your information, 300gr SMKs have very thin jackets and they are somewhat brittle which is significantly different than Mr Hensons bullets. They behave much different than the HATS (at least down here at 82 feet of altitude). I have not been dishonest and suggest that you seriously consider your words very closely. Even the Nosler folks took the bad news about their custom ammunition line when I (a nobody in the bullet world) did the evaluation and provided them the results earlier this year. Instead of ingnoring the facts/findings and claiming that I was a liar, they went to work and fixed the problem.... They were very appreciative of my evaluation based on the material they sent me.....

Here we are in November, you seem to have completely lost your objectivity of the subject matter and your strong opinions have put you in a position where you obviously feel the need to recoil out at the tester (me) since the outcome did not match your published predictions and expectations. It appears to me that your ego may be slightly damaged. Hopefully it is not damaged too much over a successful meat test of a new style bullet constructed by Mr RG Henson of Cartersville Georgia (bullett33@hotmail.com).

If you don't like the test results, then that is fine but it does not change them...... More results will be posted when they occur. Since this is YOUR thread, I will post them on a different thread since you are obviously not genuinely interested in anything but a negative finding and arguing from a point of significant disadvantage.

I really wonder if you would have questioned my integrity and the validity of the test results if the bullets had failed and I had subsequently reported that they failed and did not work? Man, I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

You asked for the results and you got them......... Too bad you don't have it in you to accept the very results you asked me to provide even if they were positive and proved that the bullets expand well in muscle tissue and penetrate well after expansion. The higher BC non-bonded HAT bullet wound channel very closely resembled (in size and geometry) the wound channels that I have witnessed from lower BC Accubond bullets on animals shot at similar distances and shot aspects.

Maybe you just don't want to pay Mr Tilley the Benjamins............

Hopefully, I will get out to the upcoming Cactus BR match and we can do some shootin. Have a nice day.

Lightvarmint
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  #25  
Old 11-03-2008, 08:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Hopefully I will have some proof ie. video, pictures and a taste test after the 15th. I have many does to whack.
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,723
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
GG,

I am not inclined to jump through ridiculous hoops just to satisfy someone or even a few folks who are genuinely not interested in the outcome or the details (whether they are postive or negative). Pictures nor videos would probably not do you any good as I doubt you would believe them and you would probably claim they were false. If we had witnesses and signed statments I seriously doubt that you would believe them (you would probably claim that they were liars too) either and that is your perogative. But don't waste my time by starting a thread on a website calling me out and asking me for bullet test results and then when you get those results, claim someone is being dishonest because the test on a live deer with blood pressure present does not agree with your tests in a dry stack of phone books.

For your information, 300gr SMKs have very thin jackets and they are somewhat brittle which is significantly different than Mr Hensons bullets. They behave much different than the HATS (at least down here at 82 feet of altitude). I have not been dishonest and suggest that you seriously consider your words very closely. Even the Nosler folks took the bad news about their custom ammunition line when I (a nobody in the bullet world) did the evaluation and provided them the results earlier this year. Instead of ingnoring the facts/findings and claiming that I was a liar, they went to work and fixed the problem.... They were very appreciative of my evaluation based on the material they sent me.....

Here we are in November, you seem to have completely lost your objectivity of the subject matter and your strong opinions have put you in a position where you obviously feel the need to recoil out at the tester (me) since the outcome did not match your published predictions and expectations. It appears to me that your ego may be slightly damaged. Hopefully it is not damaged too much over a successful meat test of a new style bullet constructed by Mr RG Henson of Cartersville Georgia (bullett33@hotmail.com).

If you don't like the test results, then that is fine but it does not change them...... More results will be posted when they occur. Since this is YOUR thread, I will post them on a different thread since you are obviously not genuinely interested in anything but a negative finding and arguing from a point of significant disadvantage.

I really wonder if you would have questioned my integrity and the validity of the test results if the bullets had failed and I had subsequently reported that they failed and did not work? Man, I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

You asked for the results and you got them......... Too bad you don't have it in you to accept the very results you asked me to provide even if they were positive and proved that the bullets expand well in muscle tissue and penetrate well after expansion. The higher BC non-bonded HAT bullet wound channel very closely resembled (in size and geometry) the wound channels that I have witnessed from lower BC Accubond bullets on animals shot at similar distances and shot aspects.

Maybe you just don't want to pay Mr Tilley the Benjamins............

Hopefully, I will get out to the upcoming Cactus BR match and we can do some shootin. Have a nice day.

Lightvarmint

I'm obviously dealing with someone here who has a serious lack of common sense and/or intelligence. LV, you need to try to understand a few things if you possibly can.

First, I am still interested in actual results (that's right, plural) of these bullets. You are mistaking my lack of faith in your credibility as arguing with your result. If you truly had a wonderful and fantastic terminal ballistic result on your one doe deer, than I say that is great. But can you blame me for not wanting to believe you? Even if you had shown unbiased proof of anything, I would still ask questions. But you really haven't shown any proof yet biased or non so forgive me for needing a little more proof. My testing was unbiased, and was posted to help you with a problem I saw, not to belittle you. Yet, that is how YOU took it and you shouldn't get in a tissy if I call you on it. My testing has proved itself to work on many, many bullets and have thus resulted in far greater long distance kills than you have even thought of in your own life and we both know that so again, forgive me if I put stock in them and you don't.

Second, about your business ethics. Well, they stink. You've already managed to turn a lot of people off your product just by how you acted here. I didn't help you ruin that. You did it all by yourself. ANd on my personal note, I can deal with bad business manners to a point, but this whole second set of dies crap was BULL. I specifically asked you if these bullets I tested were going to be available in the future without a doubt and you said, "yes". I then further let you know that they have to be because if I was going to test them, I had limited barrel life and wanted to know I was testing the final product and you said, "yes". Then it turns out, before I EVEN HAD PUT YOUR BULLETS IN BRASS, there was already replacement dies on the way to replace the first set and the bullets I was testing were obsolete before they even arrived in my mailbox! That is bad business sir. NOt to mention a lie. I don't take to kindly to liars LV and you need serious help in that department.

Thirdly, you seem to be hung up on the figure of speech bet Ron and I had for some reason as you keep mentioning it like you are going to see any more money from me or something. As I said before, the bet was with Ron, and the bet was void as WE BOTH BET ON THE SAME THING! That you would try to shoot some deer with experimental bullets that hadn't been tested on anything beforehand and it would be a wounded deer. Have we any proof otherwise???? Nope. Just your word and we've already described what that's worth around here. Here's an idea, get Greyghost on here to tell us the story. I don't even care if he has pictures or video. Just get him on here to say his bullets worked and I would believe him.

And lastly, I have a question for you. Why get so bent out of shape about a bullet that failed my humble little test if the bullet I tested wasn't even the bullet that is for sale anymore? What is it to you? Why make a big stink about it? Why insult me and get into a battle you know you can't win when all I was trying to do was show results to help you make a better bullet. This whole thing has almost become null and void because you are now using different bullets to hunt with than the bullets I originally tested! With every word you type, you are getting further and further down a dead end road. But so am I as I am arguing with a man that can't seem to play with a full deck.

By the way, I will be at the Cactus with bells on (again, that is a figure of speech, I won't actually be wearing bells) and I am looking forward to seeing you there. Perhaps you'll have some pictures to show me?
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:53 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

goodgrouper, be carefull, you will end up on his ignore list like me. I too think that its funny, no pictures or any proof on the testing, he is interested in tit for tat, still full of himself! I think by the first post that he is not even the one pulling the trigger for whatever testing that is going on.
I am in Wyoming right now, and have had good success with the 300 grain SMK, taking 2 mulie does at a respective 768 and 805 yards. I recovered 1 bullet from one of the does, and then on the Antelope opener, I harvested a great buck at 913 yards. Most of the bucks have started shedding in my area but I found a good one that still had both of his horns. A storm is coming in tonight and I will start to coyote hunt tomorrow, hopefully some good long range shots comming again.

I will take the 300 grain SMK any day. Ron Tilley
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

good grouper, you covered things pretty well, especially the die thing, I have pushed that point all along, again, well said.
Ron Tilley
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