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Light Varmint, where are you?

 
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:23 AM
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
Hello GG,

One of the readership contacted me and suggested that I "make time" and check out your recent irrelevant and ridiculous postings..... I must say, that I cannot get past this one and will not be reading your other drivel. However, and for your information, I have been putting in fall food plots, preparing the spring food plot sites, doing some hunting, scouting, working on planting equipment and waiting on the new dies to test the generation II HAT bullets. Thankfully, the final shipment of dies were sent out last Friday and should arrive this week. However, Mr Henson has been busy with his shotgun slug projects, low velocity expandable projects and 50 BMG projects. So he has not sat idle.

However, your research into our hunting seasons is as non-impressive (and as inaccurate) as your bullet testing methods. Our season starts on 8/15 and goes until 1/1 and that puts your assertion where it belongs............ In the toilet! Then, we have a two week season in the first part of January in Mississippi. So, you might want to improve your research techniques on hunting seasons and get your information more accurate than your testing methods for bullets. When you do all the math, we only have about five months (4.5 in SC and .5 in Mississippi) of deer seasons to test these bullets. I wish we had more, but this is the best we could do.

Now for the profitable response. For your information, not one HAT bullet has been fired at a deer by me. Based on the posting you have made about them zipping through the animals and me subsequently "playing the old ostrich trick", that entitles me to some cash and I want to thank you in advance for making the cash offer and I will gladly accept the wager and inform you that you have in fact lost your money. I will post to the readership the results of you following up on your wager.

Please send the advertised funds to me at:

James D. McCallum
PO Box 671
Goose Creek, SC 29445-0671

As soon as the HAT Generation II bullets are tested, you guys will be notified and you can contact the bullet maker for all photos and results.

Just for information and to prevent any confusion, the intial dies that were used for the HAT bullets were "off the shelf dies from Dave Corbin of Corbin custom dies (not Cabelas, Gander Mountain, Bass Pro Shops or Sears Mr Tilley)" from a die maker and without any intended use with aluminum-tipped bullets. The reason we are going to the Gen II bullets is because of the ballistically-slick dies that have been on order for upwards of a year are finally ready. Secondly, the Gen II bullets have always been an option since two sets of dies were in the picture and they will have a higher BC than the Gen I versions. The Gen I dies had some "quirks" that required extra steps and the Gen II dies do not have these same "quirks". I can find no reason to use up resources for testing bullets from dies that will not be used anymore (except when ground to a new configuration/caliber). And, no, GG we did not change anything due to your testing. The only thing that changed was our weight. We lost several pounds both discussing and laughing at your bullet testing attempts and subsequent conclusions. Thanks for the aerobic laughter and for a hot topic that fueled many conversations........... And, laughter is good medicine. I just want to make it crystal-clear that your testing has done nothing to influence the bullet design, production, or ammendment of any design of the HAT bullets. FWIW, had the Gen II bullet dies been available earlier in the year, they would have been the Gen I versions and we would have had testing results by now. At least the two bucks I have killed so far could have provided some live animal results for you guys. BTW, does this mean I get two-hundred more dollars or just the initial one-hundred?

Another thing that we have been doing is some research on bullet testing methods to ascertain wound channels and destructive capabilities. So far, all the material (reliable) has indicated that it must really be on live animals with blood pressure present at the time of impact. The reference in P.O. Ackley books states that testing dead animals was akin to shooting into modeling clay and not really accurate as compare to the live animal testing. Additionally, anything other than the live animals (goats) did not suffice for the referenced testing and really won't suffice for the HAT bullets either. After all, most of us have done our intial expansion testing of new bullets on live animals when we go to the field with a new bullet design or configuration. I don't know or have heard of anyone or any company (except for the federal gov't) that purchases live stock for impact and expansion testing.....

Finally, GG, I don't understand your interest in the results of our testing or the HAT bullets. Haven't you already done your testing, formed all your conclusions, published your results and had them validated by other "keyboard experts" and put into the record of absolutes? Frankly, I find it amusing that you remain interested in these bullets that you have proclaimed as less than acceptable by your standards.

Anyway, enough keyboard time for now. Time to cultipack some clover.......

Lightvarmint

Interesting LV. Very interesting. But so very contradictory. Where do I begin? How about here:
Earlier in the year, you stated that your hunt began in August so you would have some live animal testing to show us "very soon" as in several weeks. So my conclusion from what you said was that you were going to go hunting and try to kill something at the first of your season. Now you say you have until new years day to hunt and you have been busy playing in the dirt? Contradictory. And by the way, I didn't do any research on your hunt season. How could I do that if I don't even know what state you live in??? And why would I care anyway? My research methods far exceed anything you've obviously ever dreamed of for yourself so that is a non-issue. I simply had to go off what you told us which is certainly a mistake I won't make again.

As for the Benjamin on the table, when did you get the idea that that friendly wager was with you?! That was something I said to Ron Tilley and had nothing to do with you. And even if it was said to you, the bet would not be over yet (now pay attention here) because YOU HAVE YET TO KILL ANYTHING WITH THESE BULLETS!!! Am I wrong?! Nice try to though.


Another point: I find it horribly and terribly unethical to test new bullets on game without so much as running media test beforehand. You believe they will work because you have so much invested in them and they "just look so darned good" but the fact is, every major bullet maker in the world who intends their bullets to be used on game tests and retests thier bullets in media before releasing them to the public. The disrespect for life you have is astounding. How can you pull the trigger on an animal and not have the slightest idea what the bullet is going to do to it? You are in effect gambling with life that is not your's to gamble with. It's a serious lack of character. But then again, we have already seen your character on display here and it is no surprise.


And I am glad you are going to disregard my testing of your holy bullets. I figured you would. Ignorance is bliss and your drowning in a sea of it. I have tested just about every game bullet on the market in the same way I tested yours and yours placed second on the FAIL lists right under Lapua Scenars. If a bullet is going to work at long range, it will open up in my tests regardless of any factors you have mentioned. Period. I have the photos and long range kills to prove it. If you find it humorous, I don't care. You can learn from other's experiences in this life or you can ignore it and hope for the best. Either way, you as a person and businessman have demonstrated your worth with full clarity and I couldn't care less what happens to you or your precious bullets. I simply was curious as to see if my testing proved right and you didn't have the balls to show us the failures, or to see if you were going to come up with yet another excuse for not showing us any testing data, or finally if you were going to show us a photoshopped lie and try to pass it by us "less educated" types. The ball is in your court ane we are STILL WAITING. This should be interesting.


And btw, if you didn't know, PO Ackley had his shop not more than 50 miles from me and there are many of the old timers around here who knew him personally and used his gunsmithing services and I have talked with many of them. I also own his volumes and from my research by these two sources, Ackley believed the bullets would not react the same without blood pressure because he was studying the effects of light weight bullets at high velocities which rely on hydrostatic shock to kill. Unfortunately, we use big, long, heavy bullets which have reduced their impact velocity to way below Ackley's high impact testing and the hydrostatic shock factor is greatly reduced as well. It's apples to oranges comparison so you might want to do some better research next time! Then again, I know you won't.
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Last edited by goodgrouper; 10-08-2008 at 11:39 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

By the way, here is something everyone might find interesting. Here is a recovered 300 grain SMK that I pulled out of an elk this weekend that I shot at 915 yards. It is sitting next to another 300 grain SMK that was fired into the media test right alongside the HAT bullets in the now infamous test. Hmmmm, they look pretty similar don't they. Oh but my test was so irrelevant and it won't prove how bullets work at long range! I'm so glad LV was around to tell me my tests don't work!


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  #17  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:27 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgrouper View Post
Interesting LV. Very interesting. But so very contradictory. Where do I begin? How about here:
Earlier in the year, you stated that your hunt began in August so you would have some live animal testing to show us "very soon" as in several weeks. So my conclusion from what you said was that you were going to go hunting and try to kill something at the first of your season. Now you say you have until new years day to hunt and you have been busy playing in the dirt? Contradictory. And by the way, I didn't do any research on your hunt season. How could I do that if I don't even know what state you live in??? And why would I care anyway? My research methods far exceed anything you've obviously ever dreamed of for yourself so that is a non-issue. I simply had to go off what you told us which is certainly a mistake I won't make again.

As for the Benjamin on the table, when did you get the idea that that friendly wager was with you?! That was something I said to Ron Tilley and had nothing to do with you. And even if it was said to you, the bet would not be over yet (now pay attention here) because YOU HAVE YET TO KILL ANYTHING WITH THESE BULLETS!!! Am I wrong?! Nice try to though.


Another point: I find it horribly and terribly unethical to test new bullets on game without so much as running media test beforehand. You believe they will work because you have so much invested in them and they "just look so darned good" but the fact is, every major bullet maker in the world who intends their bullets to be used on game tests and retests thier bullets in media before releasing them to the public. The disrespect for life you have is astounding. How can you pull the trigger on an animal and not have the slightest idea what the bullet is going to do to it? You are in effect gambling with life that is not your's to gamble with. It's a serious lack of character. But then again, we have already seen your character on display here and it is no surprise.


And I am glad you are going to disregard my testing of your holy bullets. I figured you would. Ignorance is bliss and your drowning in a sea of it. I have tested just about every game bullet on the market in the same way I tested yours and yours placed second on the FAIL lists right under Lapua Scenars. If a bullet is going to work at long range, it will open up in my tests regardless of any factors you have mentioned. Period. I have the photos and long range kills to prove it. If you find it humorous, I don't care. You can learn from other's experiences in this life or you can ignore it and hope for the best. Either way, you as a person and businessman have demonstrated your worth with full clarity and I couldn't care less what happens to you or your precious bullets. I simply was curious as to see if my testing proved right and you didn't have the balls to show us the failures, or to see if you were going to come up with yet another excuse for not showing us any testing data, or finally if you were going to show us a photoshopped lie and try to pass it by us "less educated" types. The ball is in your court ane we are STILL WAITING. This should be interesting.


And btw, if you didn't know, PO Ackley had his shop not more than 50 miles from me and there are many of the old timers around here who knew him personally and used his gunsmithing services and I have talked with many of them. I also own his volumes and from my research by these two sources, Ackley believed the bullets would not react the same without blood pressure because he was studying the effects of light weight bullets at high velocities which rely on hydrostatic shock to kill. Unfortunately, we use big, long, heavy bullets which have reduced their impact velocity to way below Ackley's high impact testing and the hydrostatic shock factor is greatly reduced as well. It's apples to oranges comparison so you might want to do some better research next time! Then again, I know you won't.
goodgrouper, my experience with little varmint started on snipershide.com a few months ago, I saw the post here about the HAT bullets and wanted to know more so I posted on thier forum, asking a general question about anyone that had used or tried them an thier opinions on them. little varmint that goes by master chief over there immediatly responded over there stating that he saw no need for me to ask questions there because he had covered all the bases here. And then started pushing for me to pm him if I had questions because he was the tester for HAT. He was persistant on working by pm's and that raised questions with me like he felt the need to hide something. It ended with a teenage attack on me in the form of a pm, so that is why I have a pony in this race, purely to get under his skin and have him show his true colors. I would think that the bullet smith building these would have something to say from all of this, he did respond to my thread on the other site when I was trying to make them work in my gun, but that was it. I would certainly look and choose someone way more people skilled and knowing of the product to reduce the contradictory statements and defensive stance that he instantly takes on to push my product successfully if I was selling bullets, or anything for that matter. I am on his ignore list now, so I will still try to lure him out from time to time just to make him remember who I am. Ron Tilley
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:31 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

goodgrouper, congrads on your 915 yard harvest, I plan to take a Antelope in Wyoming in Nov from long range using the 300 grain SMK. Ron Tilley
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
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Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tillroot1 View Post
goodgrouper, congrads on your 915 yard harvest, I plan to take a Antelope in Wyoming in Nov from long range using the 300 grain SMK. Ron Tilley

Thanks Ron. The SMK performed flawlessly for me again. I wish you luck on your speedgoat hunt. At least you'll be using a bullet that WORKS!
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2008, 12:37 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgrouper View Post
Thanks Ron. The SMK performed flawlessly for me again. I wish you luck on your speedgoat hunt. At least you'll be using a bullet that WORKS!
goodgrouper, I wanted to let you know that I have a friend that harvested a great bull at 768 yds and a cow at a incredible 1013 yds, using the 300 grain SMK, a bullet was found under the hide from the off shoulder and I plan on weighing it and taking a picture, it went throught both shoulders high. I am leaving for Wy this friday and will hope for a few long range shots as I have 4 tags to fill. I will post the results. Ron Tilley
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  #21  
Old 11-03-2008, 08:23 AM
Lightvarmint
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Light Varmint, where are you?

GG,

I know from the title of your thread that you are extremely anxious (probably sitting on the edge of your computer commando chair) to get the real live meat test results of the HAT bullets..... Well here it is as you requested and you owe Mr Tilley some money (Benjamins I think it was). The bullets expand predictably on even our smallish SC deer (even without hitting a bone) as they worked very well on the live meat test the other day. Seems as though sand boxes, phone books and plywood did not replicate the resistance of a live game animal with blood pressure present during bullet impacts. BTW, Army ordnance testers found this out several decades ago and that is why they used goats to test small arm ammunition. So with this actual meat test we proved three theories:

--We proved that the bullets worked as intended and designed.

--We proved that the above testing media (sandboxes, phonebooks and plywood) does not replicate live animal results.

--Wet clay formed to the desired dimensions of the penetration test is very close to live animal results.

Anyway, the bullet worked flawlessly (complete penetration, no blowup and excellent wound channel). In other words a bang-flop and the deer never took a step. It was a 405 yard shot from 24" factory 300 Win Mag Sendero special using a .308 180 grainer.

Even when I tried my first new fancy projectile or loaded ammo offering for the first time out of my guns on wild game, it was always an act of faith. Since there is always a first time, you never really know until it is attempted and proved one way or another by someone! I am sure the same thing will occur with the new bullet offerings and designs in the future.

Anyway, they work very well, thanks for your interest and have a nice day.

James
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