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Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

 
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2011, 08:32 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfvickers View Post
Thats funny Greyfox, My LRH is also a 6.5-284 and that rifle is seriously more accurate than I am. and while I am not a great shot at long range or even at 200 it will shoot as tight as I can hold. I just have a 4-16x42 Sightron on it, which is plenty for what I need it to do. Does barrel heat effect your groups? Mine just keeps going I stopped at 10 but it would not throw one other than the one I threw myself.
Cfvickers, I actually won the rifle at a long range competitive event. I was pleasntly surprised at the performance. I have also found that not only the the barrel maintain its accuracy with multiple shots ,its cold bore accuracy assuming a fouled bore is excellent. The rifle will consistently deliver.25-.5 moa at 500 yards. I did do a barrel break in and opened the barrel channel to relieve contact poins tbefore all testing.
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  #16  
Old 12-14-2011, 09:05 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Cfvickers, I actually won the rifle at a long range competitive event. I was pleasntly surprised at the performance. I have also found that not only the the barrel maintain its accuracy with multiple shots ,its cold bore accuracy assuming a fouled bore is excellent. The rifle will consistently deliver.25-.5 moa at 500 yards. I did do a barrel break in and opened the barrel channel to relieve contact poins tbefore all testing.
Would you explain "Opened the barrel channel"? I looked up the break in procedure on line for one of the aftermarket barrel manufacturers and used that. I think it was shilen's. But it worked. I agree the barrel must be fouled. Mine is shooting the same way, but I have only tested it to 200 yards. Eventually I hope to stretch it out. Oh if you are saying you 0pened the barrel channel in the stock, I did that as well. That accustock confused me a bit at first but once I figured it out it was easily repeatable.
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2011, 09:25 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

I don't see a need to group guns into different classes(facotry, semi-custom, custom). While these may indicate potential to some(not me), they are meaningless factors w/regard to a measure of accuracy capabilties.
'Accuracy' takes only one shot to define. It is not 'grouping', but furthest shot to center of mark.
And hunting rifles certainly must define accuracy with single cold bore shots to center of mark.

You could have a 1.5moa grouping gun, that is <1/4moa of cold bore accuracy, and a 1/4moa grouping gun that could not be relied on for 1.5moa of cold bore accuracy.
MOA to range further defines real world capabilities. Type of rifle means nothing, and with LRH, grouping means nothing.
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2011, 09:55 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Whether you agree or disagree with testing At 100 yards does not matter it is what you get
with the results for what you intend to do with the rifle.

This is a long range hunting site and most members need a rifle that will shoot well beyond
500 yards.

This will sound contradictory but I test all rifles @ 100 yards initially. then to develop drop
charts, zeros, bullet performance and long range accuracy I move to longer ranges.

The reason "I" test at 100 yards is= consistency, velocity, accuracy, function, pressures,
extraction with different loads, recoil and many other things that can be affected at longer
distances by the shooter,altitude,temperature,wind, shooting position ETC.

No matter how far you can/intend to shoot the rifle should be tested at your max distance
it will be used. However A solid load should be tested before going to longer ranges.

I have seen great groups @ 100 yards that did not have good SD and at extended ranges
performed poorly.

So when I finish my 100 yard testing I am confident that it will perform well at long distances
and I am ready for the longer testing.

You can make a poorly built bullet shoot ok at 100 yards but it will let you down at the longer
ranges so a lot of the testing is to compare the 100 yard test to the 600+ yard tests.

So IMO You should do both short range and long range Testing for the best results.

Start with good componants, premium bullets with high ballistic coefficients, good loading
procedures and skill, a good chronograph and 100 yard testing then move 100 yards at a
time to the greatest distance required and you will save time and money and also you will
find the rifles limits and yours.

Nothing is a waste of time if it makes you and your rifle a better shooter.

This is a good thread and worth talking about.

Thanks Broz

J E CUSTOM
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Last edited by J E Custom; 12-14-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I don't see a need to group guns into different classes(facotry, semi-custom, custom). While these may indicate potential to some(not me), they are meaningless factors w/regard to a measure of accuracy capabilties.
'Accuracy' takes only one shot to define. It is not 'grouping', but furthest shot to center of mark.
And hunting rifles certainly must define accuracy with single cold bore shots to center of mark.

You could have a 1.5moa grouping gun, that is <1/4moa of cold bore accuracy, and a 1/4moa grouping gun that could not be relied on for 1.5moa of cold bore accuracy.
MOA to range further defines real world capabilities. Type of rifle means nothing, and with LRH, grouping means nothing.
I think it is important to document what 'adjustments' have been made to a rifle when we talk about it's accuracy. That way, readers of this forum don't think that an 'off the shelf' rifle will shoot at some particular accuracy level, when in fact the rifle in question might be factory chambered, but have a target trigger, McMillan Stock, professional bedding etc etc. I think these things are important, as can be seen by the posts that appear on a weekly basis "Most accurate factory rifle" or "First build, what is really needed." etc.

I personally don't care if a rifle is a custom or an off the shelf. If it will put it's first bullet where I want it, it's a fine rifle. I have a close friend that has some of the ugliest franken-guns you've ever seen, but every one of them shoot great. I've also seen beautiful custom rifles that wouldn't shoot worth spit.

AJ
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  #20  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:22 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfvickers View Post
Would you explain "Opened the barrel channel"? I looked up the break in procedure on line for one of the aftermarket barrel manufacturers and used that. I think it was shilen's. But it worked. I agree the barrel must be fouled. Mine is shooting the same way, but I have only tested it to 200 yards. Eventually I hope to stretch it out. Oh if you are saying you 0pened the barrel channel in the stock, I did that as well. That accustock confused me a bit at first but once I figured it out it was easily repeatable.
My Savage LRH's stock had barrel contact at the very end. I sanded it down so that the barrel was fully floated before I shot the rifle. I prefer fully floated barrels on my rifles. Otherwise,the accustock works very well. I used similar break in to the one you used. Good luck at the longer ranges!
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  #21  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:22 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
...
So IMO You should do both short range and long range Testing for the best results.
...
Nothing is a waste of time if it makes you and your rifle a better shooter.
In my opinion a rifle and it's shooter need to be considered as a system. It takes both to achieve good performance.

It's nice to know that a rifle can shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards and 6" groups at 1000 yards in calm whether, but if the shooter can't dope wind, determine range, and take into account the other parameters which affect first shot accuracy on animals in field conditions the accuracy of a superb rifle will be wasted. Some people do practice in field conditions with their hunting rifles, but too many don't. They may shoot some small groups from a bench and think they're good to go hunting then wonder why they get wounds and misses.

JECs statement that nothing is a waste of time if it makes you a better shooter is true, but
if you spend the time on the areas which don't need the most improving the gains will be small.
Target shooting is not just to improve skills. An equal reason is to learn limitations.
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