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Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

 
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2011, 11:41 PM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragman View Post
I work at a sporting goods store and You wouldn't believe the amount of guys I know that have factory rifles that shoot factory ammo and they all shoot in the exact same hole. Or the guys with there grand dads 22-250 or 223 and they shoot a dime at 1000! I think that I am just unlucky as I haven't found these guns myself, but I am sure they all tell the truth.
Lol!! I hear the same sidebar conversations through my electronic earmuffs at the range, but it's usually young soldiers fresh out of basic training with a new out of the box remington .308 with a Bushnell 3-9 and a box of core-lokts. It is the same rifle that the sniper's use ya know.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2011, 11:48 PM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

A discussion on accuracy could get divided into two camps; those who have the space to safely shoot out to 1000 or more and those who do not. Here in the Socialist Republik of NY, those long ranges are few and very far between. Most shooting ranges that allow rifles are 100y. The club I am a member of has one target board at 150. I am aware of a couple others within an hour or two that are 200y.

In my own case, the farm I've been hunting and could shoot out to about 800 was just sold. We were informed in September by the new owner that the property was no longer available for our use. Several of us had been hunting and shooting here since the 70's. Unfortunately, I didn't shoot much past 500Y until a couple of years ago when this LR bug got me.

Anyhow, we have located another farm within 1/2 hr drive where we will be able to hunt chucks and predators but not big game. Target shooting is yet to be determined. If it becomes possible, it'll only be 300 to 400y - maybe to 500y. We'll continue to search.

My point is for some, a good group at 100 or 200 is what we get to shoot. And after seeing some of the targets in pics in various posts, if I see two or more holes in the paper I'm disappointed.

I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers with my rant which this post may have sounded as. wasn't my intention at all. Just a bit annoyed with knowing the places I used to hunt and shoot are shrinking and disappearing.

One of these days I'm going to take some time off and go out west and find a place where one can look from horizon to horizon and not see a roof!
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2011, 05:15 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

The usual criteria for testing loads is 100 yards. A load grouping 5 or 10 shots well at that distance should then be tested at 300 or whatever you choose. All of us shoot better at short range. Most will find that groups under 1 MOA at 100 will be somewhat smaller further out. Then, there is wind and mirage to consider at those extreme ranges. Shooter errors are less at shorter distance. Just my 2 cts.
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2011, 07:15 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

I shoot both custom and factory rifles at extended ranges and tend to disagree. I don't disagree that how you establish the actual accuracy rifle by testing it at extended ranges and getting results over time, cold bore, etc. is not taken into account when you hear about results. I own and have seen many factory rigs that will keep up with the customs at 500-1000 yards. Don't get me wrong. It's not all factory rifles and they many times need bedding, trigger, and load optimization. I have two factory rifles, Savage LRH and a Cooper 52, both in 6.5x284 that for hunting purposes and compared to the same configuration in custom rigs will deliver consistent results that are the same or sometimes better. Both have no problem putting a bullet in the boiler room of a whitetail at 1000 yards, the furthest I have shot game. Maybe not good enough for Benchrest, but more than sufficient for the hunting I do. Shooters can be just as successful using a factory rifle as someone using a custom rig. Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but that's my experience.
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2011, 07:21 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by brentc View Post
Lol!! I hear the same sidebar conversations through my electronic earmuffs at the range, but it's usually young soldiers fresh out of basic training with a new out of the box remington .308 with a Bushnell 3-9 and a box of core-lokts. It is the same rifle that the sniper's use ya know.
Brent, I bet you cut that young soldier some slack though. He has to start somewhere. My first 308 was the short action remington heavy fluted 26" barrel with that black kevlar stock, I still miss that gun. I think I was 14 when I saved up and oredered it. I bought the gun and my dad provided me with a scope. had some big bausch and lomb 6x24 x something on it which was good stuff at the time. 500.00 was a lot for glass at the time unless you were going german optics. all I ever fired was factory ammo but man that thing would shoot an inch with anything I put in it, again good for a 14 year old and factory ammo. I swore then I could shoot 1/4 inch groups with it, but I was full of it. But that started my love of rifles and shooting stuff way off (200 yards was long at the time to me)
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  #13  
Old 12-14-2011, 07:27 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
I shoot both custom and factory rifles at extended ranges and tend to disagree. I don't disagree that how you establish the actual accuracy rifle by testing it at extended ranges and getting results over time, cold bore, etc. is not taken into account when you hear about results. I own and have seen many factory rigs that will keep up with the customs at 500-1000 yards. Don't get me wrong. It's not all factory rifles and they many times need bedding, trigger, and load optimization. I have two factory rifles, Savage LRH and a Cooper 52, both in 6.5x284 that for hunting purposes and compared to the same configuration in custom rigs will deliver consistent results that are the same or sometimes better. Both have no problem putting a bullet in the boiler room of a whitetail at 1000 yards, the furthest I have shot game. Maybe not good enough for Benchrest, but more than sufficient for the hunting I do. Shooters can be just as successful using a factory rifle as someone using a custom rig. Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but that's my experience.
Thats funny Greyfox, My LRH is also a 6.5-284 and that rifle is seriously more accurate than I am. and while I am not a great shot at long range or even at 200 it will shoot as tight as I can hold. I just have a 4-16x42 Sightron on it, which is plenty for what I need it to do. Does barrel heat effect your groups? Mine just keeps going I stopped at 10 but it would not throw one other than the one I threw myself.
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2011, 08:14 AM
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Re: Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

I think we have a terminology issue.

Here are the definitions I'd propose

'Off The Shelf' -- NO customization's, no upgrades, no bedding. Original stock, trigger etc.

'Factory chambered' -- Un-trued action, original barrel (or factory takeoff rebarrel). Upgraded trigger, stock etc. But not accurized by a smith/lathe etc.

Accurized factory rifle -- Trued action, upgraded barrel etc.

Custom - Rifle based on non-factory action. (BAT, Stiller, Borden ... )


In my experience, very few 'Off the Shelf' rifles will hold sub 1/2moa. And very few Custom rifles will shoot worse than 3/4moa.

Thoughts,
AJ
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