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INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

 
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  #71  
Old 11-01-2012, 02:09 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

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Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
No desire or intentions to pile on here. As I recall, Nosler's primary advertised purpose for bonding the core to the jackets in the Accubond line of bullets is to increase weight retention, compared to the Ballistic Tip line of bullets. The ABs have a reputation for retaining about the same % of weight as the Nosler Partitions, which is in the 30%-50% weight loss parameter that you are desirous of. The ones I've used appear to have performed within that weight retention criteria, although most have passed through and never been recovered. So I don't think you should expect too much different from their bonded line of bullets. Shouldn't expect the explosive, massive shrapnel effect that some of the non-bonded lead core bullets exhibit.

I will qualify my experiences with the ABs by stating that the longest shot I recall with an Accubond was a little over 400 yds, and that bullet passed through and exited a black bear's rib cage. The wound was very lethal, however I didn't recover the bullet. The Accubonds have been 100% reliable performers on game in my experience, meaning I've never had one fail to expand and never had one pencil through game yet without expanding - up to this point in time.

However I did experience a non-expanding pass-through-the-ribcage incident on a Dall ram at a distance of 12 yards about 30 years ago, shooting a 150 grain Ballistic Tip from a .280 RCBS 30 Improved. I believe that few, if any, expanding bullets perform in accordance with design intentions 100% of the time. Since the Accubonds are physically identical to their twin BTs, and since I had a BT fail to expand at high-velocity impact, I am certain it occasionally happens with the AB bullets also. Perhaps even more likely to happen at longer ranges, with the reduced impact velocities.
I re-read my post and didn't do a great job of getting my point across. I hate it when words get in the way!

My main points were supposed to be more clear to state: 1. I think they are on the right track with a tipped but bonded bullet. This theoretically will ensure expansion but eliminate the blowups. 2. For me the perfect bullet is somewhere between the A-max or Berger style explosive grenade type bullets and one that keeps enough weight to still penetrate well with no blowups or penciling. The heavy for caliber A-max's and Bergers do this very well right now IMO but the light to medium weight for caliber bullets don't and a guy has to be careful in certain situations. A tipped bonded bullet, if constructed correctly could theoretically be good for crease shots and shoulder shots because consistent performance could be obtained in soft tissue only hits (the tipped bullets ensures expansion) and shoulder hits where the bonded bullet keeps it from disintegrating.

I will add one point and this is only my experience and observation, with today's flat shooting cartridges, for me, LR is for sure a minimum of 400 yards and probably 5-600 yards and out to 1k. I personally haven't seen 30-50% loss in weight on any AB from those distances especially if no bone is hit.

Bottom line, I am excited to see how these play out in real world scenarios.

Scot E.
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  #72  
Old 11-01-2012, 02:09 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

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Originally Posted by Joe King View Post
I don't think they inflate them so much as it just what BC calculators do, sort of nature of the beast. Berger's BC's are verified by rounds down range, but that doesn't really translate into increased sales to the ave Joe that really doesn't understand the concept very well, but that's not Berger's market either, we as more demanding shooters and reloaders are more along the lines of a nitch, and Berger is more interested in selling us a product that we can use rather than trying to sell us what we think we want. Where companies like Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, Speer. Are mass manufactures and inflating BC's translates into sales to the mass, simply because they don't fully understand. Not at all saying Nosler and the others don't make a very good product, they do, just different target consumers.
So which one is it? Inflation of BCs as a company marketing policy to increase sales to the masses, and increase resultant company profits? Or inflated BCs that are simply a by-product of an inherently 'flawed BC calculator', which by-the-way, happens to be adopted and employed by these manufacturers - who most certainly are aware that their resultant advertised BCs error on the exuberantly, even giddy, high side of reality? No lashings intended here, but I couldn't help but notice the two conflicting, contradicting explanations expressed within your Post.
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  #73  
Old 11-01-2012, 02:24 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

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Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
So which one is it? Inflation of BCs as a company marketing policy to increase sales to the masses, and increase resultant company profits? Or inflated BCs that are simply a by-product of an inherently 'flawed BC calculator', which by-the-way, happens to be adopted and employed by these manufacturers - who most certainly are aware that their resultant advertised BCs error on the exuberantly, even giddy, high side of reality? No lashings intended here, but I couldn't help but notice the two conflicting, contradicting explanations expressed within your Post.
lol I was thinking about that as I was writing it, my belief is it's both, and to some extent each. Look at it this way, you have a about 10milion potential customers, if you can claim with a certain amount of truth (think stretching the truth here) "Our bullet has 10% more retained energy than the other guys" and back it up by comparing your best against their worst, and pad the #'s just a little. and realizing that your target consumer (weeked warrior bob with the super ubber wappemmag) isn't going to take the time to research it beyond what you release to you press and salesmen, your going to sell more of your product, also realizing that you actually clear a min profit from each bullet you have got to sell it by the truck load to keep your doors open. so you fudge a little here exaggerate a little there just look just a little better than the other guy, but you try to do it with out flat out blowing smoke and still keep a pretty dang good product.

Edit: how about: they use the overly optimistic BC's generated by their BC calculator as a marketing tool. I ever mention communication was never my strong point?
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe

Last edited by Joe King; 11-01-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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  #74  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

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Originally Posted by calhunter805 View Post
In the OP it says that:
The ogive of the AccuBondŽ-LR is designed to provide excellent accuracy in a wide variety of firearms without the necessity of being loaded close to or in contact with the lands.

Could this be a new Nosler hybrid Ogive? Would make sense if they are getting such a high BC? Also didn't Berger experiment with a bonded VLD before? Maybe the Berger guys can throw in some info on there testing and why a bonded hunting vld never came out before?

I know Matrix has some bonded hunting bullets but are not the high BC as their standard VLD hunting bullet
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  #75  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

Just thinking outloud here. OK, so to utilize the BC of the 30 cal at .730 it is obvious they are indeed intended for distances past 800 yards. Is that a safe statement? I have taken game with my 300 win to 1285 this season with a 215 Berger. The results and great exit hole made me plenty happy. Do most of you feel that a bonded bullet will produce a good exit hole past 1000 yards?

Jeff
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  #76  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

An exit hole is not needed. All you need is a dead animal.
Been there and done that.
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  #77  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:49 PM
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Re: INTRODUCING Accubond Long Range

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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Just thinking outloud here. OK, so to utilize the BC of the 30 cal at .730 it is obvious they are indeed intended for distances past 800 yards. Is that a safe statement? I have taken game with my 300 win to 1285 this season with a 215 Berger. The results and great exit hole made me plenty happy. Do most of you feel that a bonded bullet will produce a good exit hole past 1000 yards?

Jeff

Don't imagine that they will do better at distance than you are seeing with the Berger 215. They might not do as well. For one thing the BC is almost certainly less so they'll have less velocity way out there to work with.

If they have an advantage I'd think it would have to be close in for that tough shot at a bad angle through heavy bone.

Accuracy is the other issue. Accubonds are accurate but better than Bergers? Probably not. But they'll work better for some people in some guns.

What I'm expecting is BCs about like the Amax lineup. So the 210 ALR might be about like the 208 Amax, not bad but not a 215 Berger. They will hold together better than the Amax because of the bonded core and, I think, a heavier lower jacket. But they might not expand as well at distance.

I think they'll be a very good option and well worth trying.
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