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How is this for a vertical string

 
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  #22  
Old 05-29-2013, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alabama
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Re: How is this for a vertical string

The other guy I was talking to about it, was gonna make me one of these out of Ti...For a 700 long-action with a standard bolt face for a project of mine. But I'm not sure where he went. Last time I talked with him he was machining custom prosphetic vertebrae and all kinds of high-end medical implants and surgical equipment. It's been a while though....I was pretty sure he went by the same username as you.

Found this picture online...This isn't my picture.

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Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
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  #23  
Old 05-30-2013, 01:25 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
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Re: How is this for a vertical string

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
I will give it a shot. I am headed back to range on Friday I will shoot some three shot groups and post there targets.

Don't police snipers generally use a 308 Wincthemer as a standard? Is there actually bad recoil management with a 308? I love my 308 I can literally watch the bullet hit the target. Maybe the bigger magnums just exploit the weakness in your setup. While something like a 308 hides them.
308W is fairly common but some Police would also have the 338LM or similar as an option in certain circumstances .
I know a few people that can't handle the 308W properly because of bad technique .
The bigger the recoil the more flexing that goes on and the more movement of the gun backwards that upsets the position for the next shot .
Just because a certain person can tolerate a certain recoil does not mean they are adequately controlling it . That's two different things.
People say " that recoil does not worry me " but are they getting the accuracy they should ?
It's a trade off , if you want good long range ballistics using heavy bullets then the extra recoil is inevitable , in the lighter guns anyway .
Make the gun much heavier and it soaks up some recoil .
I think you are on the right track now to start perfecting your style so you shoot the same each time . Take your time firing the first shot , watch the wind and work out if you are going to fire when the wind is gone or when the wind is consistent in speed and direction , so that the first cold bore shot is right on the money . Then deliver the next two shots with the same wind condition and hold . Be patient and wait until you get the same wind condition even if it takes quite a while . I will be surprised if you don't get a tighter 3 shot group than before .
Watch the wind and when you see the right condition approaching take a breath just before you are ready to shoot . Exhale half and hold , tweak the cross hairs again and gently squeeze the trigger using the pad of the index finger not the joint . Make sure only the finger moves at it's joints not the whole hand . If the wind does not cooperate or suddenly changes back off the trigger and start again . It needs to be slow at the start so your brain can process all the required moves and develop a muscle memory. When people rush their training they don't develop the correct muscle memory in their brain . In time you will be able to produce it all without even thinking and then it all happens faster .
When you post a picture of a group make sure you mark the shots in order and if the first was a cold bore shot , the range and what wind condition .
If you find your cold bore shot is off after cleaning the barrel you will have to fire a fouling shot or two and then let it cool down before you start group shooting. Sniping is a bit different to group shooting in most circumstances . In sniping you are mostly trying to deliver that first cold bore shot on target each time not so much the following shots but there is still many circumstances that you will want to fire more than one accurate shot on multiple targets or when trying to walk the POI onto a target which is the way it mostly happens at extreme ranges.
So a good sniper rifle has to have both capabilities , accurate cold bore shot and put the rest of the shots close by that , in addition to hold it's zero in extreme climates and a bunch of other traits .
Thankfully many fairly cheap modern sporting firearms are also capable of good accuracy .
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  #24  
Old 05-31-2013, 12:26 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
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Re: How is this for a vertical string

I do agree there is a big difference between taking the abuse of a rifle and controlling the recoil in a repeatable manner.

I have done enough cold bore shots to get them in a 1 moa group. My rifle will throw them 1/2 min high and a 1/2 minute right out to 400 yards I have not done enough testing beyond that to have confidence in hitting my mark.

Thanks for all the help, I think this thread is done. I will keep updating my targets as soon as I am able to shoot again. Unfortunately today at work I dropped a 100 pound 6 jaw 12 inch chuck on my index finger. It only fell a few inches but man that was all it needed to ruin my day. Turned my finger into hamburger. It isn't broken but man it looks pretty nasty. The doctor almost stitched it but the blowout ran on the inside crease of the finger. He finally just threw some butterfly bandages on it and splinted it told me take it off in two weeks.
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  #25  
Old 05-31-2013, 01:04 AM
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Location: Australia
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Re: How is this for a vertical string

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
I do agree there is a big difference between taking the abuse of a rifle and controlling the recoil in a repeatable manner.

I have done enough cold bore shots to get them in a 1 moa group. My rifle will throw them 1/2 min high and a 1/2 minute right out to 400 yards I have not done enough testing beyond that to have confidence in hitting my mark.

Thanks for all the help, I think this thread is done. I will keep updating my targets as soon as I am able to shoot again. Unfortunately today at work I dropped a 100 pound 6 jaw 12 inch chuck on my index finger. It only fell a few inches but man that was all it needed to ruin my day. Turned my finger into hamburger. It isn't broken but man it looks pretty nasty. The doctor almost stitched it but the blowout ran on the inside crease of the finger. He finally just threw some butterfly bandages on it and splinted it told me take it off in two weeks.
That is bad luck indeed . I always put a bar through my big chucks when moving them and place them down , side on , between some wedges or on the padded veeways . Wish I could afford a 6 jaw .
Hope it heals up ok. Not sure I would leave it uninspected for two weeks though .
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  #26  
Old 05-31-2013, 02:58 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 23
Re: How is this for a vertical string

I am certainly going to look at it every few days. The Chuck was for a fourth axis someone crashed into it at full Rapid so I was not ecstatic about tearing it apart in the first place. I was in a hurry to get it back up and running. I normally use the overhead Crane it is overkill but safer. Tore it apart got it back together and I put it on. I realized I was 120 degrees off. Took the strap off figured I would just push it at turn it by hand to save some time... Needless to say it slipped off the mounting plate just as I was about to thread in the first bolt.

I do have a 17 hmr with a hair trigger I might be able to shoot that on Sunday.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2013, 03:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
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Re: How is this for a vertical string

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
3 Exhale half and hold , tweak the cross hairs again and gently squeeze the trigger using the pad of the index finger not the joint . Make sure only the finger moves at it's joints not the whole hand . If the wind does not cooperate or suddenly changes back off the trigger and start again . ...

If you find your cold bore shot is off after cleaning the barrel you will have to fire a fouling shot or two and then let it cool down before you start group shooting. Sniping is a bit different to group shooting in most circumstances .

In sniping you are mostly trying to deliver that first cold bore shot on target each time not so much the following shots but there is still many circumstances that you will want to fire more than one accurate shot on multiple targets or when trying to walk the POI onto a target which is the way it mostly happens at extreme ranges.


So a good sniper rifle has to have both capabilities , accurate cold bore shot and put the rest of the shots close by that , in addition to hold it's zero in extreme climates and a bunch of other traits .
Thankfully many fairly cheap modern sporting firearms are also capable of good accuracy .
A lot of good points in this thread that I have come across during the course of trying to develop accurate loads...all important considerations.

First shots, etc...
Now, there's a difference in a "cold bore" and a "clean bore" and even a "clean bore" and a "fully decoppered bore". And this is especially important for any situation where the first shot counts big; for most of us that means hunting.

Always shooting from a cold barrel or barely warm seems to produce tighter groups, from sporter a barrel anyway. So I usually take 2 shots maybe a minute apart, then wait however long it takes to get the barrel down to the same temp as the first of those 2. I always note the order of shots on targets. Always looking for patterns.

After reading several posts on the subject and talking to shooters, I've been experimenting with not decoppering the barrel very often but only doing light cleanings to get powder fouling out between visits to the range. This has resulted in more predictable...meaning same POI as last time out...first shots. If I don't clean the barrel out at all, the first shot POI is the same, given air temp and other conditions the same... I hit within .1 or .2 MOA of the expected POI on the first shot if I do my part. After that, the bore is not "cold" and next 2 are often within .2 MOA of that.

We have been discussing the idea that a stasis is reached with copper fouling, meaning that after a certain number of rounds, copper is no longer building up thicker in the barrel. I can't measure it physically, but judging by chrono and initial shots' POI on targets does seem to be support for that idea. After a complete decoppering, the first several rounds chrono lower velocities by as much as 40+fps.

Back to stringing...
Breathing! I was taught the same "let half the air out, pause, final targeting, squeeze". Last year, talking about vertical stringing, a guy at the range who said he had military sniper training told me to let the whole breath out and relax before squeezing. That's the first time I heard that. Has anyone else heard that method?

Bore temp. - discussed above.

All of the advice on holding and the mount/rest is great, thanks for detailing, and there's more in that accurateshooter article. But 1 thing that was mentioned in another thread here is, somone said that if you're using a bipod, there should be something under it to dampen the vibrations or bounce if its on an otherwise hard surface. So lately I've put a sweatshirt or folded towel under the bipod and I think it might have helped. Any thoughts on this?
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