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How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

 
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:18 AM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

How often do you anneal your cases...this helps with consistent neck tension.
Do you use a primer pocket uniformer and flash hole deburring tool?
Good luck!
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2013, 04:56 PM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_heli_logger View Post
How often do you anneal your cases...this helps with consistent neck tension
How do you know this?
Have you, anyone you've ever met, or heard of, measured neck tension(annealed or not)?
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2013, 06:17 PM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

I anneal anywhere from every round to every other round depending on the brass and type of reloading. Annealing does help control neck tension.

Another good article to read:
The Art and Science of Annealing
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
How do you know this?
Have you, anyone you've ever met, or heard of, measured neck tension(annealed or not)?
...no, but:

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  #19  
Old 08-22-2013, 07:33 PM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
How do you know this?
Have you, anyone you've ever met, or heard of, measured neck tension(annealed or not)?
Does this count? Probably not but when I started with my last 338 LM I was using a .366" neck bushing to be .002" under loaded neck size. After 4 firings I lost neck tension as I could push the bullets in by hand. I also noticed soot on the necks. I dropped to a .365" bushing and now bullets were secure but still had soot. So I bought my first annealing machine. I annealed the same brass and went back to the original .366" bushing, all bullets were secure again. Soot went away too. Since about 1/2 the seated bullets in that brass lot were loose and 1/2 still tight after 4 firings, and after annealing all were tight with the .366 bushing it surely means I had more consistent neck tension. At least from my view it does.

Jeff
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2013, 01:10 AM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

All kidding aside, I can tell by feel ...if it's good enough for Virgil King, it's good enough for me. I know you'll laugh, but I use a Lee hand press and I can feel the difference when seating bullets. Work hardened brass looses it's elasticity and annealing brings it back. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my attempt at humor; especially you Mikecr, I have the utmost respect for your opinion on all things reloading.
Good luck!
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  #21  
Old 08-23-2013, 03:16 PM
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Re: How do I get my extreme deviation or spread DOWN?

The reason I ask is because I've apparently never hardened necks, and never have to anneal beyond initial.
Frequent annealing seems to me a bandaid I don't need.

I measure seating forces with an electronic loadcell and hardened mandrel. I measure every single neck just before bullet seating.
With my control/consistency in reloading, I can see any change in brass hardness. Yet with many many reloads of my cases I don't see it change. And I've never had to pitch brass.
My velocities, ES, and tune hold without annealing.

If you find that annealing improves anything, then you must be work hardening brass through excess sizing. Maybe you don't have any choice(or the choices were already made).
But annealing reduces neck tension on properly expanded necks(due to decreased springback). This may lead to heading for more sizing than needed(if not annealed), working the brass more, and self perpetuating a need for the cause..
People who don't expand necks think annealing increases tension, again because of reduced springback. But it's really only increasing seating forces, which increases seating variances. Annealed tension(grip) is actually less than non annealed necks provide when sized correctly.

Like reducing runout, it's better to avoid the causes, so I don't recommend bandaids.
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