Hi Guys, Was just thinking about asking the 'Bigtime' LR guys what your rifles will do as far as group size at 100yds. And what the max group size(100yds) you would accept before you would shoot an animal at 1000yds? Thanks, Jay
I like to see one hole groups with any of my custom LR rifles.
When I say one hole, I mean one hole either a nice round hole of say .350" (30 cal) or one elongated or cloverleaf hole of 5 or 10 shots fired at 100 yards. Our custom LR guns should "Never" be more then 1/2" 5 shot groups.
They are heavy bench style guns and ride the bads very well. We also use return to battery systems for our extreme LR guns.
When testing a LR load, I rarely shoot at 100yds because I have had several one hole loads string badly at longer range. I now do my testing at 250yds and strive for groups around 1". I know that this load will not string and should stay consistent out to 1000yds.
I am sure that these loads would make very small groups at 100yds but just don't bother.
For deer what is the highest group you would go for shooting deer? My 25/06 will average about 5 inches at 500 yards. That is about MOA. Someone was telling me on shooters.com that 5 inch groups at 500 yards is to big to be shooting deer. No deer I have shot and killed at 500 yards knew the difference.
Also could I get you to give me the highest group for elk I could go? I would like to know because I am going to strive for MOA out to 800 yards with my .300 Win Sendero. I have no intentions shooting deer or elk past 600 yards, yet anyways. I would just like to know the maximum group size which would be acceptable. Someone on this forum said not to expect much more than 3/4 MOA from a factory rifle, I will be happy with 1 MOA up and out to 800 is all. Thanks in advance.
i have a sendero in 300RUM and have been doing 3 shot groups between 1/2-1MOA out to 750 so far. DC and them will definitely do better with customs rigs, but as far as factory stuff, thats what i've been getting for reference. i have had it bedded and lighten the trigger, but thats the only work done on it.
If it were easy, I wouldn't be doing it.
I have two different rifles that will shoot tiny little groups at 1000 yards as long as I do my part (doesn't happen often).
Either one will shoot ragged 1 hole groups at 100 (perhaps 1/4 to 3/8 moa) with my chosen 1000 yard load.
So far as what group size I would accept at 100 yards before shooting an animal at 1000 yards.
Answer: I would NEVER accept any sort of a 100 yard group for that sort of shooting. If you are going to try to cleanly shoot a living animal at 1000 yards you MUST know what that particular rifle, and yourself, are capable of shooting well past 1000 yards.
I shoot to 800 yards weekly and to 1000 yards perhaps 6 or 7 times a year. Personally, I would put my limit to shoot game at 500 yards because at longer yardages windage is by far the toughest component. You can get the bullet drop down to within 1/2 moa all the way out as far as you care to test loads and use a laser range finder to determine the exact distance to the target. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing besides skill, experience, and judgement which will allow you to accurately decide the wind drift at extended distances.
Misjudging the average windage by more than 1 mph at 1000 yards with a 308 Winchester (for instance) would mean a change in about 10" in bullet impact. That is enough to end up with a wounded animal rather than a clean and humane kill. Granted that most long range shooters use something more substantial than a 308 Winchester, but the concept still holds true that the windage component still governs where the bullet will hit in real world long range shooting.
That really leads to the question of what wind conditions would you consider appropriate for taking a 1000 yard shot at a game animal?
That distance is past my personal limit so I am interested in hearing what the heavy weights think.
100 yards will not always tell you a good 1000 yard load, but it will show you a bad one and that is about it. I use the ladder method for load development at 400 yards to pinpoint sweet spots for the barrel and then fine tune from there.
In my 300 wsm, it will shoot the bad ones into one ragged hole under .300 but the good ones have gone into sub .100. My 6.5/06 AI is needing a new barrel, (next week) and it is really "tempermental" now and shows more open groups. At 1000 now it is grouping 12-15" which is exactly 3x from where it needs to be and was this spring.