Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics


Reply

How accurate is accurate enough?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern Alberta
Posts: 12
How accurate is accurate enough?

I'm not sure if this is the proper category to post this in but I'm sure the mods will move it if it's not.

My questions to all those who have significant experience is: how accurate (under ideal conditions and in the hands of a proficient marksman) should a rifle (338 calibre) be before you would stop screwing with it? 1 MOA, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4.....ect....?

I am really interested in what someone could expect from a truly top notch 338 Lapua/Edge/ etc... So for those who have witnessed or shot precision 338's how accurate is kick ass accurate?

-John
__________________
I'd rather be hunting!

Last edited by Johnny5; 11-17-2009 at 03:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,542
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny5 View Post
I'm not sure if this is the proper category to post this in but I'm sure the mods will move it if it's not.

My questions to all those who have significant experience is: how accurate (under ideal conditions and in the hands of a proficient marksman) should a rifle (338 calibre) be before you would stop screwing with it? 1 MOA, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4.....ect....?

I am really interested in what someone could expect from a truly top notch 338 Lapua/Edge/ etc... So for those who have witnessed or shot precision 338's how accurate is kick ass accurate?

-John
Accuracy is an individual thing and each person has his/her maximum and minimum.

Most people hope for 1/2 MOA at any distance and this is a very good accuracy to settle
for, but the distance and the game one wants to shoot really dictates the minimum group
size required.

If your hunting 400 to 500yards 1 MOA will work. (500 yards 5" groups) but the further
out you shoot the tighter the group should be. (1000 yards most would prefer 3/4 MOA
or less for 7.5" groups.

At 1500 yards a 1/2 moa rifle should produce around 7 or 8" groups under perfect conditions
(Which is rare) so you can see that the accuracy requirement is determined by the distance.

Like most on this site I never stop trying to improve accuracy in any weapon but I do limit
the shots to the capabilities of the rifle and myself.

Also just because a rifle will shoot 1/4 MOA at 100 or 200 yards doesn't mean it will at 800
to 1000 yards . This can only be verified by shooting at these distances.

And in answer your question about the 338s mentioned. A well built 338 with good loads
and good optics in the hands of a competent marksman should be capable of sub 1/2 moa.

Kick ass accuracy would in my opinion be 1/4 MOA or less.

J E CUSTOM
__________________
"PRESS ON"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-17-2009, 09:54 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NC, oceanfront
Posts: 3,337
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

Your target and range determine this

Needed MOA = ((KillZone-BulletDia)/(Rng[yds]/100)) x .955

So if your KillZone is 8", minus .338" = 7.662"
If your range is 1000yds then 7.662" Divided by 1000/100 is .7662[IPHY], times 95.5% is .732MOA

1/2MOA would be needed for that Kz to 1460yds

Groundhogs provide considerably less Kz...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:22 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kodiak, Ak
Posts: 357
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

How accurate is accurate enough_ if all bullets follow the first bullet into the same hole at 1 and 200 yards then I am satisfied. I currently have 4 handguns that if I do my job that day will shoot 2-3 inches at 500 yards.

Example below:



Neal
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-18-2009, 11:41 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern Alberta
Posts: 12
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

Interesting responses. I'm trying to gauge whether I should stop having my 338 Lapua tinkered with or not. It's a Timberwolf action, sentinel stocked rifle wearing a krieger barrel. I am currently averaging around 1/3 MOA out to 500 meters. Normally I would be extremely pleased with this however I have been spoiled by my tuned up Remington 700/AICS in 300 win mag. With that rifle I average around 1/4 MOA out to the same distance.

I know there's not alot of difference between 1/3 and 1/4 MOA however I think I might be a little OCD and am obsessed with wringing the last little bit of accuracy out of my rifles.

I am wondering if my accuracy isn't being restricted by the loads I am shooting. I had the 338 throated so I could load 300 grain Sierra matchkings to the lands and still run them through the magazine. This winds up having the base of the bullet seated around even with the case body/shoulder junction and from what I understand this is not optimum for accuracy.

I am hoping the berger 250's come out soon so I can give them a whirl and hopefully load them to a more sensible length.

-John
__________________
I'd rather be hunting!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-18-2009, 02:43 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Bern, NC
Posts: 347
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

It really depends on how anal you want to be. If you are satisfied with the groups then your good. Just remember, you can have a rifle that will put the bullet through the same hole, but if the shooter can't make the shot then the rifle won't. I've seen several people, granted it was with regular hunting rifles shooting under 200 yards that sold a rifle because they could only shoot it @ 1.5" @ 100 yd. The guy buying it using the same bullets took his time and shot a .75-1" group. So its not always the gun!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2009, 03:03 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 528
Re: How accurate is accurate enough?

Good replies.

I'd like to bring up some additional considerations.

The groups that the rifle/shooter are capable of is a relatively small part of the picture as far as LR hunting is concerned.

I think there are a lot of rifles/shooters out there capable of shooting 10" to 15" groups at 1000 yards. However, I think there are very few rifles/shooters out there who can hit 10" to 15" targets at 1000 yards on the first shot.

I think many shooters falsely believe that if their rifle shoots 10" groups, then they can hit 10" targets. It's not that easy. The important knowledge that's required to center shots on the aimpoint at long range is often overlooked. This important knowledge is of course related to ballistics.

The topic is addressed in this article: Hitting Targets at Long Range

It's important to tune your rifle to shoot the smallest groups possible, BUT that's only a prerequisite for hitting small targets at long range. When you consider the challenge of addressing all the ballistic effects, it puts the 1/3 MOA vs 1/2 MOA question into perspective. When 2 degrees of cant cause you to hit over 10" wide of your aimpoint at 1000 yards, it doesn't matter if your rifle shoots 1" groups at that range, you still miss.

This is pretty common sense stuff that doesn't disagree with anything that's been said. I'm only bringing it up because it's important to keep questions and answers in proper perspective.

Best of luck,
-Bryan
__________________
Bryan Litz
Ballistician

Author of: Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting
And: Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: How accurate is accurate enough?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most Accurate AR -15 Capt Academy AR15/10 Rifles 62 06-29-2014 09:13 PM
accurate tommyc279 Muzzleloader Hunting 8 09-27-2009 08:35 PM
How accurate would it be. HTG Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 2 09-03-2009 08:25 PM
What is accurate? mikekelly Long Range Scopes and Other Optics 15 01-22-2006 11:58 PM
Just how accurate do I need to be? Iron Worker Reloading 12 11-15-2005 02:31 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC