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Honesty and group size

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Old 01-02-2012, 02:29 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
Honesty and group size

I have seen people on this site claim they shoot under 1" groups at 500 yards. I do believe there are people no this site that can do it but I don't believe it is as many people that claim they can. I have read people shooting under one inch at 500 yards with a factory stock rifle. Is this really possible? With my 20x Leupold scope the cross hairs look to be about 3" thick on a target 500 yards away. How much talk is straight BS here?
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:44 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,283
Re: Honesty and group size

Its all in the definition of the number of shots that constitute a group.

IMO a group consists of no less than 5 shots. Preferably 10 shots.

Inasmuch as I am mainly interested in placement of a single cold bore shot, I shoot at least 1 shot per day, some times more than one day apart, for 5 shots.

Thus I am a happy shooter if I can consistently beat MOA @ 500 yds and beyond.

When I go busting LR rocks its the first shot at the first rock that counts. Usually elevation is spot on. If windage is off more than 1/2 moa I'm a sorry weatherman.

This reasoning only counts when not shooting on my home range. I have the wind pretty much nailed there. It's out in the wild where things get discouraging at times.
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:37 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carrollton, Ohio
Posts: 641
Re: Honesty and group size

Of course it is possible. I get less than 2 inches at 300 yards with a scoped 30-30 regularly.

I shot a 300 yard group from a 95 year old iron sighted rifle this week that should be impossible:

Not that I'll ever duplicate that, but I know I can get sub-moa accuracy from it at many distances, and my front site is a lot wider than a scope cross hair.

400 yard sub-moa.

200 yard sub-moa.

Those are the last 3 groups I've shot with this rifle all sub-moa with a rifle with a damaged bore.

I believe everyone on this site, this site is where I've learned how to make my rifles accurate. Nowhere else.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-- Samuel Adams
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:50 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 1,098
Re: Honesty and group size

Its possible, but can they do that consistently? I think many of those braggers really mean one minute of angle, not one inch. One MOA at 500 yards is 5", which is more realistic.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,246
Re: Honesty and group size

Now you have done it!

A rifles routine day to day grouping and "once upon a time" are two different things.

Plus there is not a standardized definitition of a "group". Is it 3,5,10 shots or I put 3 shots on/near a rock at x distance? Seen all here to include "minute of 5 gal bucket (MOB).

To keep it in perspective the world record for 600 yards is around 3/4 inch for 5 shots on BR guns shot off benches and rests.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:29 AM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 451
Re: Honesty and group size

I have shot a .577, 3 shot group at 500 yds with my 6Br. I can't do it every time. If I could I would win every 600 yd match I went to. The gun will shoot 1/2 moa 99% of the time if I do my part. Those really good groups are rare and just make us try harder to do it every time. Every body has to dream a little. Just keep shooting and enjoy. Dan

Thanks Joel for a beautiful stock!
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Honesty and group size-6br-001.jpg  
Dan's Custom Gun Shop
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:41 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,077
Re: Honesty and group size

Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
To keep it in perspective the world record for 600 yards is around 3/4 inch for 5 shots on BR guns shot off benches and rests.
To add to this, the long range heavy gun at Williamsport 1000yd is 2.8" 10 shot group from a highly modified 300WSM shooting 210 Berger's.

My gun has been very consistent. It is a Savage action with an aftermarket barrel. Here is two separate targets on 2 separate days.

100yd prone, 3 shots .116"

718yd prone, 3 shots

Playing around with 175 Nosler Custom Comp

Here is a pic from my Savage in its original factory configuration. It's a 5 shot group shot prone with Hornady 110 V-max Savage Mod12 VLP w/DBM, at the time of this target there were absolutely no modifications to the rifle at all.

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

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