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Honesty and group size

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Old 01-02-2012, 02:29 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 117
Honesty and group size

I have seen people on this site claim they shoot under 1" groups at 500 yards. I do believe there are people no this site that can do it but I don't believe it is as many people that claim they can. I have read people shooting under one inch at 500 yards with a factory stock rifle. Is this really possible? With my 20x Leupold scope the cross hairs look to be about 3" thick on a target 500 yards away. How much talk is straight BS here?
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:44 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,409
Re: Honesty and group size

Its all in the definition of the number of shots that constitute a group.

IMO a group consists of no less than 5 shots. Preferably 10 shots.

Inasmuch as I am mainly interested in placement of a single cold bore shot, I shoot at least 1 shot per day, some times more than one day apart, for 5 shots.

Thus I am a happy shooter if I can consistently beat MOA @ 500 yds and beyond.

When I go busting LR rocks its the first shot at the first rock that counts. Usually elevation is spot on. If windage is off more than 1/2 moa I'm a sorry weatherman.

This reasoning only counts when not shooting on my home range. I have the wind pretty much nailed there. It's out in the wild where things get discouraging at times.
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:37 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carrollton, Ohio
Posts: 641
Re: Honesty and group size

Of course it is possible. I get less than 2 inches at 300 yards with a scoped 30-30 regularly.

I shot a 300 yard group from a 95 year old iron sighted rifle this week that should be impossible:

Not that I'll ever duplicate that, but I know I can get sub-moa accuracy from it at many distances, and my front site is a lot wider than a scope cross hair.

400 yard sub-moa.

200 yard sub-moa.

Those are the last 3 groups I've shot with this rifle all sub-moa with a rifle with a damaged bore.

I believe everyone on this site, this site is where I've learned how to make my rifles accurate. Nowhere else.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:50 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 1,129
Re: Honesty and group size

Its possible, but can they do that consistently? I think many of those braggers really mean one minute of angle, not one inch. One MOA at 500 yards is 5", which is more realistic.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:32 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,360
Re: Honesty and group size

Now you have done it!

A rifles routine day to day grouping and "once upon a time" are two different things.

Plus there is not a standardized definitition of a "group". Is it 3,5,10 shots or I put 3 shots on/near a rock at x distance? Seen all here to include "minute of 5 gal bucket (MOB).

To keep it in perspective the world record for 600 yards is around 3/4 inch for 5 shots on BR guns shot off benches and rests.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:29 AM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central North Carolina
Posts: 455
Re: Honesty and group size

I have shot a .577, 3 shot group at 500 yds with my 6Br. I can't do it every time. If I could I would win every 600 yd match I went to. The gun will shoot 1/2 moa 99% of the time if I do my part. Those really good groups are rare and just make us try harder to do it every time. Every body has to dream a little. Just keep shooting and enjoy. Dan

Thanks Joel for a beautiful stock!
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Honesty and group size-6br-001.jpg  
Dan's Custom Gun Shop
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:41 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,120
Re: Honesty and group size

Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
To keep it in perspective the world record for 600 yards is around 3/4 inch for 5 shots on BR guns shot off benches and rests.
To add to this, the long range heavy gun at Williamsport 1000yd is 2.8" 10 shot group from a highly modified 300WSM shooting 210 Berger's.

My gun has been very consistent. It is a Savage action with an aftermarket barrel. Here is two separate targets on 2 separate days.

100yd prone, 3 shots .116"

718yd prone, 3 shots

Playing around with 175 Nosler Custom Comp

Here is a pic from my Savage in its original factory configuration. It's a 5 shot group shot prone with Hornady 110 V-max Savage Mod12 VLP w/DBM, at the time of this target there were absolutely no modifications to the rifle at all.

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

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