Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics


Reply

Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa
Posts: 22
Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

Hi All

My first time posting on this forum, I have been reading it for a while (year or so) with great interest and would love to get into long range hunting and decided to post to pick some experienced brains.

I will apologise in advance for the long post as I have many questions and ideas and would like to hear from the pro's.

A quick background: I live in South Africa where firearm licences often take 1 -3 years to be granted. Yes that long. So building a rifle is a rather serious endeavour/affair as not only is it the time invested (mostly waiting) but also the (almost) prohibitive cost: a few examples;

Brougton 6.5mm (.264) Safari (#7.51) contour barrel - $800 (ZAR 5 500)
Savage (short) target action, standard bolt - $1 160 (ZAR 8 000)
Bell and Carlson tactical medallist A5 stock - $950 (ZAR 6 500)
Berger VLD 140g 6.5mm (.264) hunting match bullets (per 50) - $65 (ZAR 450)
Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 6.5 - 20X50 tactical scope - $2 180 (ZAR 15 000)

The above are just a few examples but give you a good indication of prices we have to contend with.

I have been hunting a while and always (sadly) have to borrow a rifle from the farmer or (more fortunate, licenced) friend. We use mostly 308 Win, 303 Lee Enfield, 300 Win Mag and 270. Our shooting ranges are usually anything from 50m to 250m. I am a purely meat hunter and the staple is Impala, Springbuck, Kudu and Blue/Blackwildebeest. These are (sorry for those who are familiar with these antelope) smallish (Springbuck, Impala - 20 - 40kg dressed out) to medium (Kudu - 80 - 140kg dressed) to medium large (Bluewildebeest - 80 - 180kg dressed). I would guess small to medium is the same class as your Whitetail deer and Kudu/Bluewildebeest same as Elk/Moose.

I have been wanting to build a long range rifle and need some final advice/comments from real life long range hunters such as on this forum. Since I plan to build 2 rifles (a 7mm Rem mag, 160/168g at 3 000fps for larger stuff later) this build is the first, smaller one.

Requirements:
Hunt all of the above animals to ranges of up to 500m (larger approx 400m).
Moderate recoil.
Flat trajectory and good wind bucking.
At least 1000fpe at 500m.
Fair barrel life (due to expense).
1/2 MOA at 100m
It will also be used for local club competitions, 300m varmint shoots and grouping exercises. (definately not serious benchrest shooting)

From many readings/research it would seem that the ideal cartridge is something like the 6.5mm-06, 6.5x284, 270, 7x57 Ackley or 260 Rem.

This is what I have so far: (not bought yet)
26" Broughton safari contour (#7.51) match barrel, 1:8 twist.
K98 Mauser action, single shot.
Custom solid aluminium stock (the gunsmith already has one handbuilt on his 338 Lapua and it is awesome, will take pics next time and post, looks almost like the Ultimate Sniper stock from John Plaster)

Cartridge:
I was leaning towards the 270 Win with 130g Berger/Accubond at 3 000fps but on my last trip to the gunsmith he asked me how many guys have I seen winning accuracy/grouping comps with a 270. My answer was none. They are usually using 308, 243 or 7x57's. In the US, more like the 6.5mm's and 7mm's.

I really like the ballistics of the 6.5mm's, long sleek, retains velocity and energy...the 140g Berger is a true thing of beauty. I was thinking along the lines of 140g Berger VLD for comps and 140g Accubond for hunting?
The 6.5x284 is brilliant but seems to burn barrels, the 6.5mm-06 seemingly more softer on barrels? The 270 with 130g is a classic but is the accuracy there? (especially for comps). The more accurate cartridges seem to be the shorter fatter ones.
What about the 260 Rem? Longer barrel life and it can push the 130g to about 3 000fps. The 140g and 130g Berger VLD's have high BC's (.552 and .612 respectively) but does it make any practical difference within 500m? What about the 260 Rem AI?
Would a 130g at 3 000fps suffice? Plugging the 130g at 3 000fps into JBM Ballistics indicates it will. Is it true that the Ackley versions will allow for longer barrel life and longer case life? Does this not make a strong case for the 260 Rem AI?

My reasoning is that I want to give myself the best ballistic advantage possible with the cartridge and then take it from there.

So I guess my question is which cartridge for the 130g Berger/Accubond (but I can still load the 140g's if I feel like it) will easily reach 3 000fps with no pressure, decent barrel life and a high degree of accuracy.

Thanks gents for any responses.

regards,
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:48 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 33
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

No brainer, 264 Winchester Magnum

Ranger Jim
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-01-2010, 06:16 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florence, MS
Posts: 43
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

Well you know you said you don't know of anyone who uses a 270 for competition, well I do. I have been using a 270 for competition shoots for about a year and I have placed high each time I competed. I love a 270 and will always use it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:55 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California
Posts: 458
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

I was in your beautiful country in '07 (near Kimberly), and harvested all the animals you named using my Win. M.70 .270 with factory Federal Nosler 150 gr Partitions...they dropped like rocks, because the gun is accurate and very easy to shoot, and those bullets are dynamite.

I envy you living in such a game rich country, but I don't envy your corrupt government, or the wretched racial problems you're forced to endure.

I was hoping to return next year, but unfortunately, the financial problems seem insurmountable at this time.

Last edited by LewisH; 11-01-2010 at 08:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:41 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, Montana
Posts: 145
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

It seems to me that you have it all pretty much sorted out. Now you just have the age old problem of settling on the exact cartridge.

Not that I use a .270 currently, but the first 13 big game animals that I harvested were with a .270. In fact I had a savage laminated stocked .270 that consistently shot .350-.5" groups with factory ammo. So I would certainly keep it on the list. Unfortunately I did sell that rifle years ago to raise funds for a larger caliber.
__________________
Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunters. ~African Proverb


‘‘To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...’’ — Richard Henry Lee, 1787

Last edited by ejones338; 11-01-2010 at 09:45 PM. Reason: missed placed a word
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:42 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 123
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vleder View Post
Hi All

My first time posting on this forum, I have been reading it for a while (year or so) with great interest and would love to get into long range hunting and decided to post to pick some experienced brains.

I will apologise in advance for the long post as I have many questions and ideas and would like to hear from the pro's.

A quick background: I live in South Africa where firearm licences often take 1 -3 years to be granted. Yes that long. So building a rifle is a rather serious endeavour/affair as not only is it the time invested (mostly waiting) but also the (almost) prohibitive cost: a few examples;

Brougton 6.5mm (.264) Safari (#7.51) contour barrel - $800 (ZAR 5 500)
Savage (short) target action, standard bolt - $1 160 (ZAR 8 000)
Bell and Carlson tactical medallist A5 stock - $950 (ZAR 6 500)
Berger VLD 140g 6.5mm (.264) hunting match bullets (per 50) - $65 (ZAR 450)
Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 6.5 - 20X50 tactical scope - $2 180 (ZAR 15 000)

The above are just a few examples but give you a good indication of prices we have to contend with.

I have been hunting a while and always (sadly) have to borrow a rifle from the farmer or (more fortunate, licenced) friend. We use mostly 308 Win, 303 Lee Enfield, 300 Win Mag and 270. Our shooting ranges are usually anything from 50m to 250m. I am a purely meat hunter and the staple is Impala, Springbuck, Kudu and Blue/Blackwildebeest. These are (sorry for those who are familiar with these antelope) smallish (Springbuck, Impala - 20 - 40kg dressed out) to medium (Kudu - 80 - 140kg dressed) to medium large (Bluewildebeest - 80 - 180kg dressed). I would guess small to medium is the same class as your Whitetail deer and Kudu/Bluewildebeest same as Elk/Moose.

I have been wanting to build a long range rifle and need some final advice/comments from real life long range hunters such as on this forum. Since I plan to build 2 rifles (a 7mm Rem mag, 160/168g at 3 000fps for larger stuff later) this build is the first, smaller one.

Requirements:
Hunt all of the above animals to ranges of up to 500m (larger approx 400m).
Moderate recoil.
Flat trajectory and good wind bucking.
At least 1000fpe at 500m.
Fair barrel life (due to expense).
1/2 MOA at 100m
It will also be used for local club competitions, 300m varmint shoots and grouping exercises. (definately not serious benchrest shooting)

From many readings/research it would seem that the ideal cartridge is something like the 6.5mm-06, 6.5x284, 270, 7x57 Ackley or 260 Rem.

This is what I have so far: (not bought yet)
26" Broughton safari contour (#7.51) match barrel, 1:8 twist.
K98 Mauser action, single shot.
Custom solid aluminium stock (the gunsmith already has one handbuilt on his 338 Lapua and it is awesome, will take pics next time and post, looks almost like the Ultimate Sniper stock from John Plaster)

Cartridge:
I was leaning towards the 270 Win with 130g Berger/Accubond at 3 000fps but on my last trip to the gunsmith he asked me how many guys have I seen winning accuracy/grouping comps with a 270. My answer was none. They are usually using 308, 243 or 7x57's. In the US, more like the 6.5mm's and 7mm's.

I really like the ballistics of the 6.5mm's, long sleek, retains velocity and energy...the 140g Berger is a true thing of beauty. I was thinking along the lines of 140g Berger VLD for comps and 140g Accubond for hunting?
The 6.5x284 is brilliant but seems to burn barrels, the 6.5mm-06 seemingly more softer on barrels? The 270 with 130g is a classic but is the accuracy there? (especially for comps). The more accurate cartridges seem to be the shorter fatter ones.
What about the 260 Rem? Longer barrel life and it can push the 130g to about 3 000fps. The 140g and 130g Berger VLD's have high BC's (.552 and .612 respectively) but does it make any practical difference within 500m? What about the 260 Rem AI?
Would a 130g at 3 000fps suffice? Plugging the 130g at 3 000fps into JBM Ballistics indicates it will. Is it true that the Ackley versions will allow for longer barrel life and longer case life? Does this not make a strong case for the 260 Rem AI?

My reasoning is that I want to give myself the best ballistic advantage possible with the cartridge and then take it from there.

So I guess my question is which cartridge for the 130g Berger/Accubond (but I can still load the 140g's if I feel like it) will easily reach 3 000fps with no pressure, decent barrel life and a high degree of accuracy.

Thanks gents for any responses.

regards,
Well if you are looking for good barrel life and you are using a 26" barrel with an 8 twist the 260 Rem will give you the best barrel life. You said you have a single shot action so I would have the barrel throated for the bullet you plan to shoot while allowing enough of the bullet in the neck to get a good solid hold on the bullet. ( some say a minimum of one caliber, some say more some say less.) Yor rifle is going to be unique to it's self so you will have a bit of work to find what works best. With a 26" tube you can take advantage of powders slower than you would think would work in the 260. I like H-4831 in mine with a 22" barrel. I have tested with 140 Bergers and IMR 7828 and H-1000 I got pretty good velocity but accuracy was not there as my barrel is a 9 twist. You should have no problem driving the 130 AB to 3000 fps and beyond with that barrel length. I have been running 125 partition's at 2880 + or - in mine for 5 years now I can push them faster without trouble but accuracy goes away. I have no idea what powders or brass you can buy where you are and that might be a deciding factor in what you choose.

Elk and moose where I live are large, the deer are too whitetails and mule deer. A 136 kg buck of either does not draw too much attention unless he has big head gear. Elk bulls can hit 300 kg and above. Bull Moose 400kg plus and 500 kg is not unheard of and even larger. I can't comment on how tough you game is but the 260 with a good bullet in the right place will drop 200kg animals in short order. Put the right bullet in the right place and get your knife out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:35 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa
Posts: 22
Re: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie

Thanks for the responses so far gents,

If I suggest that the ideal would be a combo 6.5mm Accubond/Berger 140/130g at approx 3 000fps from a 26" barrel, then:

1. The 6.5x284 and 264 will achieve this without pressure signs, is this also fairly easy for the 6.5-06?

2. Which one will have the longest barrel life? I am not going to be shooting long strings and will clean religiously, also not 1 000's of rounds p.a. Given this, is this really a factor (practically speaking) between the 3 rounds?

3. Which one is the easiest to load and develop a load for? i.e. least finnicky to get accurate.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Hi from South Africa - LRH newbie
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello from South Africa F.L.A.S.H Member Introductions 2 01-05-2013 12:25 PM
From South Africa Jaco S Member Introductions 1 07-18-2011 09:59 PM
new guy from south africa reinier Member Introductions 0 05-17-2011 12:00 PM
Greetings from South Africa jmb Member Introductions 1 11-21-2010 11:09 AM
Hello from South Africa Porker Member Introductions 1 01-24-2010 08:58 AM

Current Poll
Do you archery hunt for elk?
YES - 34.35%
113 Votes
NO - 48.33%
159 Votes
Not yet, but I plan to. - 17.33%
57 Votes
Total Votes: 329
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC