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Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing

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Unread 04-14-2009, 02:14 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,618
Re: History repeats - Take Two! on LRH

I've hung around this Forum long enough to remember the run-around Richard Graves (Wildcat Bullets) got in posts from some members that had strong feelings about what Richard should or should not do for them. A big fight then was BCs. Quite a few people poisoned the posts by insisting that Richard create and post BCs for the multitude of bullets he manufactured. Richard cut a low profile for some period of time. Eventually, after the madness went on and on, he posted that he'd run his business the way he saw fit. Low and behold Wildcat Bullet's found a loyal and steady customer base that was willing to purchase the products on Richard's terms. Best I could tell, Richard couldn't keep pace with demand based on his part-time availability to the bullet making vocation. It was always his second job, as I understood it.

Well history repeats itself and now we're going through this all over again with RG Henson's bullet manufacturing business.

Kirby can associate with this repeat more than most. I couldn't agree more with his message. We've got another bullet manufacturer trying to grow a business, and a fellow testing those bullets who share's those test results with us. Where's the rub? For cripes sakes, cut these guys some slack.

You don't like something about Henson or James, send them a PM or move on. How people get to feeling annointed to influence or force their opinion's on another man, or his business model and practice, escapes me. If you feel annointed to the point of a delusional belief you have to control the business or the owner of the business before you can partake of the product, I've gotta say get real - or maybe start up your own business.

Beyond that, Kirby already said it. You wanna try some Henson bullets - buy some. I value this option. I'm hoping the best for both Henson and the new owners of the Wildcat bullet manufacturing equipment. If they get successful business models up and running, good for them.

Unread 04-14-2009, 05:26 AM
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Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing

Originally Posted by noel carlson View Post

"Nuclear physics.... home of the free lunch."... O.K., you just raised the red flag. Has our "Nuclear Navy" suspended conservation laws?

Are you, by inference, saying that your bullet generates lift without commensurate increase in drag?

-What was the "customer" group size at 1,400 yards?

-How many shots in the group?

-How many total groups produced? (I will not be interested in milk jug kills)

One topic at a time please...........

Your point of contact for your conservation question is Jeff Csuy at Bettis Labs in Pittsburg PA. He is a friend of mine and he is currently designing the fuel matrices for our future power plants.... He is a wealth of information.

Next question........Nope

The group size was I believe .5 moa

Don't know the number of shots

No, they were not milk jugs.

We just got a very positive report along with a somewhat large order for some additional bullets.....

Noel, I just had a great idea....

Why don't you start a thread about your bullets and field some questions from the gallery. Realize that it would be considered advertising and that you would have to be a paid sponsor to to it yourself....

However, one of your customers could do it from an information only type angle and you could field some questions that we come up with. However, if the thread got very big, you would be expected to pay up and become an advertiser.........

No reason to continue to hijack this thread about your products when you can have your own.

Unread 04-14-2009, 05:42 AM
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Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing

Originally Posted by eddybo View Post
ummmm once again a reminder to check any load data I give out as my mind is dyslexic but I have spread some misinformation in this thread.

I am using .9 as the BC on these bullets not .96 as I stated earlier. Sorry if I created any false expectations of these bullets. I opened exbal on my phone today to show it to a friend who does not know anything about long range shooting. I was showing him how to plug in the velocity and BC and pulled up my 338AM as an example. I saw that it was .9. I thought maybe that was wrong, but checked it on my old phone that I primarily use when hunting. I was mistaken, maybe it was wishful thinking. I guess I just have too many numbers running around in my head since I have taken up this hobby gun smithing.

At .96 it would only be 7 MOA at 800 yards. I know for a fact that it takes 9 MOA to be deadon at 800 yards. I still have not figured out where I came up with .96.

Anyway, I sent some bullets to Bryan. I did that not as any type of slam to the bullet maker or even to lightvarmit. As I understood the situation they had no problem with him buying some to test. I sold him some just to save him some time. I do not expect that he is going to turn up anything out of the ordinary.

I will say this, the bullets shoot very well. From my limited experiance with them they kill stuff very well. I will continue shooting them BUT...the BC aint nowhere near 1.1. and I am pretty darn sure it is not .96 either. I am not disputing lightvarmits data, just saying that it does not match my own which could be from a myriad of reasons including my ignorance.

Once again I am sorry for spreading misinformation or creating any confusion. I think that I posted .9 as the BC on these bullets several months back, it has not changed. Maybe I started with .86 and went to .9 I just cannot say, but would have sworn to my posts until just a little while ago. I am sincerely sorry for my mistake and hope that I did not cause anyone any problems. I should have checked my phone as I have it with me at almost all times and should have not have relied upon my faulty memory.

Your actual .900 makes my .910 look like we predicted it correctly. It would answer a lot of questions if they did not hit at -10.3 moa with a 400 yard zero at 3245 fps.... But they do.

However that is the raw data and if I am going to hit the intended target at 928, then I have to hold it at -10.3 moa to do so.

Thanks again for your post..... FWIW, I have been trying to figure out how you came up with .96 and we came up with .91 as a prediction..... Now I feel a whole lot better. Thanks.

Unread 04-14-2009, 08:13 AM
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Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing


My comments about being raked over the coals were concerning me specifically quite a while ago when I was developing bullet drop derived BC values for bullets that no one had ever tested before.

I do not believe you were around on LRH at that time, I may be wrong but I do not remember you coming after me in any way. That said, I never reported any +1 BC values either. Most were in the .740 to .9 range.

My comments were not directed toward anything you have done, only to what I experienced with my reporting years ago.
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:36 AM
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Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing


You are correct, an accurate BC value has more uses then just predicting drop and drift, I agree with you 100% on that.

IF your concerned with predicting bullets terminal performance it can be helpful in this as well. An inflated BC will extend max range for terminal performance limits, that is true, but realize at what range this occurs. A bullet like this will likely reach out WELL past where most of us will shot big game at.

There are very few That will shoot at big game out past 1500 yards and even with a 338 Lapua or 338 Edge, you will have sustained 1500 fps at 1500 yards at least at my elevation of 3500 ft using the 300 gr SMK. With the Aluminum tipped bullets it will extend even farther and also remember that a tipped bullet will have more positive expansion if the bullet is designed correctly at longer ranges then a HP or SP bullet.

It is certainly important to know that your bullet will perform at the impact velocity you will be dealing with. But in my opinion, that criteria has had more weight put on it then is really needed because very few of us ever shoot far enough at big game to reach the terminal limits of a bullet as far as velocity are concerned.

Again, I am not discounting this in anyway, just saying that me personally, I never shoot at big game at a range where this is a consideration.

There are also other areas where an pure BC is valueable but in my opinion, the main value of BC is being able to predict where that bullet will be at any point in its trajectory. That is far more important then any other bit of information we can get from a BC number.

I know most of use use chamberings that will perform perfectly well at ranges FAR past where we are capable of shooting out to on Big game, or at least at ranges farther then we are willing to take a shot at a big game animal.

You are fully correct on your comments for sure but with this class of chambering, I am just not sure those other things are all that important to the scheme of things. but good points and its always wise to be thinking of such things to make sure your not pushing the limits of a certain combination.
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page:
Unread 04-14-2009, 09:20 AM
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Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing


Last edited by BryanLitz; 04-18-2009 at 09:50 AM.
Unread 04-14-2009, 10:32 AM
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Posts: 214
Re: Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet Testing


"No reason to hijack this thread about your products when you can have your own."... This detail may have escaped other readers, so I feel compelled to respond to what amounts to an ad hominem.

I have said, precisely, nothing about my R&D, which includes much more than projectiles. What information has been posted was done, ironically James... by you. I might add that it was presented in a perjorative, and dismissive manner. If my objective was to promote my products, and embarrass you, then the opportunity was offered to me on a golden platter.

I did not take advantage of this for a number of reasons, but foremost among them is that no one wants to wade through a ******* contest.

Bryan, and I are (technically) competitors. I am not in the least threatened by him, and we have had exchanges on another forum. My sense is that he is a good man. You should value his imput.

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