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Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

 
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  #78  
Old 06-09-2010, 10:00 AM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

It sounds like you PPC is a little slow, I run an Axim x51 and I get corrections in seconds, the module takes a few more seconds to open but once it's open I can move through them fast.
It's a lot easier to work out the dope on the desktop then drop it to the PPC!!
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  #79  
Old 06-09-2010, 10:26 AM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Using your numbers from the last post in Loadbase. With coriolis and MV of 2795. I use a DC of .500 for the G7 and .480 for the G1

G7 419 700yrds = 10.3
995yrds = 19.9
1182yrds = 26.7
1395yrds = 35.9

G1 818 700yrds = 10.4
995yrds = 20.2
1182yrds = 27.2
1395yrds = 36.7
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Last edited by bigngreen; 06-09-2010 at 10:48 AM. Reason: redo
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  #80  
Old 06-09-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglet View Post
Shawn Carlock did some shooting and never complained about the BC for them bullets to be off... you thought they were pretty much on, right?
Eaglet,
I have not shot the .338 Bergers yet. I tested the .308 Berger 210 VLD, 7mm Berger 168 VLD, and 7mm Hornady 162 A-Max. Using Litz's G7 BCs and LB with the DC left at the default value of 0.500, the 1000 yd measured velocities were on the money. One was withing 9 fps of LB3 predicted velocity. One was within ~5 fps of LB3 predicted velocity. And one was within 2 fps of LB3 predicted velocity.

I never mentioned drops because the 1000 yd velocity is a better indication of successful ballistic modeling - IMO. Downrange velocity is relatively unaffected by winds or shooter. But the dope/drops in all three instances were as expected also. I cranked in elevation dope and the bullets hit as predicted as I moved from my 300yd zero height to the ~995 yd targets. Broz is shooting past 1000 yds and I've not chronographed past 1000, but I have confidence that predicted dope and downrange velocity for the three G7 BC bullets I tested would be on-the-money.

But sorry - I have not shot or tested the .338 Berger Hybrid bullets. It would be an interesting exercise due to the current revision of Berger published BC, but I'll wait now until Berger settles on a final bullet design, manufacture, and BC. I've got enough other shooting/testing projects to keep me busy until April 2011, when I'll travel to Kodiak for a brown bear hunt. Our winters are awfully long up here and I tend to complete the long range chronograph work after fall hunting season and before spring bear seasons. Just the way it works best into my schedule - for the time being.

bigngreen,
I use a Dell Axim X51V and I don't have objectionable delay either. On the other hand, I've got nothing to compare speed of operation to, since I've not used Exbal or any other field ballistic software.

Last edited by phorwath; 06-09-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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  #81  
Old 06-09-2010, 08:42 PM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Exbal is much faster at start up Than LB3.0

That's a fact!

Another thing is a fact is that that is at start up where you really feel the difference, after that you don't think about it anymore.

My 22 month old grand son is way faster than me, gets up faster, moves faster etc. etc. But that's the only thing he does better than me!!! ji...ji..ja..ja...
Unfortunately he gets whipped at everything else (for now). That also a fact.

Another thing is you have to keep track of how many programs are running in the back ground of your PDA. The little x on the top right corner does not close the programs it only minimizes them. A person that does not know how to check how many programs are running in the back ground of their PDA is going to experience horrible slow downs...

My Axim has an application called the SwitcherBar, usually it shows on the very top of the main screen; when you click on it it tell you how many programs you're running and how to stop them.

LB3.0 is tremendously powerful and accurate, that comes at a price. You can get real inexpensive Design programs that are lightning fast, that's cool, they won't be good for all your designing, get Roadway Design interfaced with Inroad and man!!!! much, much slower... lots of power and extremely accurate.

Thankfully, It's only at the very start up that LB3.0 can get to 30 to 40 seconds before it gets going; after that it's pretty smooth.

When I'm out in the field the program is the only one running in my pda... I would turn the PDA off leaving the program running in a way that if I need it again I just turn the PDA on and I'm quickly in business.

Broz has a faster processor than mine, his should be running even faster...
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Last edited by Eaglet; 06-09-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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  #82  
Old 06-09-2010, 09:28 PM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglet View Post
When I'm out in the field the program is the only one running in my pda... I would turn the PDA off leaving the program running in a way that if I need it again I just turn the PDA on and I'm quickly in business.
Same here Eaglet.

PDA's were a foreign device to me until I purchased the Dell Axim X51V specifically for LB. I still don't know much about the other uses for an X51V. But I did eventually come to learn that after I move into a position and set up to spot/ambush/shoot, I can load a saved Tract, input the existing Field Conditions, Lat, and anticipated azimuth. Then I load the Shoot! or Shoot Solution tab, turn ON spin drift, coriolis, slope, and enter the range to where I expect the game encounter to appear. Then I briefly tap the power button, this seems to place the PDA in hibernation mode with a relatively low battery draw/drain. Tap the power button briefly again whenever I need to get dope for a shot and the unit is quickly up and running just as I last entered data. I can quickly enter any revised pertinent data (wind or temperature changes, azimuth, LRF range), get the corrective dope, and prepare for the shot.

I use desktop and laptop PCs extensively and have for the past ~20 years, but for whatever reason, the PDA involved a bit of a learning curve.
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  #83  
Old 06-09-2010, 11:02 PM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
after I move into a position and set up to spot/ambush/shoot, I can load a saved Tract, input the existing Field Conditions, Lat, and anticipated azimuth. Then I load the Shoot! or Shoot Solution tab, turn ON spin drift, coriolis, slope, and enter the range to where I expect the game encounter to appear. Then I briefly tap the power button, Tap the power button briefly again whenever I need to get dope for a shot and the unit is quickly up and running just as I last entered data. I can quickly enter any revised pertinent data (wind or temperature changes, azimuth, LRF range), get the corrective dope, and prepare for the shot.
I am aware of this guys. And the above paragraph states my concern well. So now I need a compass and gps to get all the data for a shot?

Here is what I am saying, and I am not bashing LB3.0 I just feel it may not be best for huntig in the field, at least the way I hunt.

Remember I have both on my pda and everything else was wiped off with a hard clean out before either was loaded. This computer is only used for LR shooting / hunting.

I am not doubting LB3.0 is more in depth, and has MORE to look at and refine. But the problem is, it has yet to show me I need it. I guess I am just not sure I need the coriolis, azmuth, Spin drift and all. Look at all the extra steps needed to get a come up elevation. Many more steps mean more places to error.

Bottom line, exbal is now giving me the same or closer dial ups with a whole lot less entries.

Gentlemen, I have applied my self to this 110% with a positive attitude. Further more, I will keep using BOTH.

The next step of this is the fun part. I am preparng to load another 100 rounds. These will be used for cold bore one shots at various targets. I will look at what each program says and see which is closer to a perfect hit.

If it proves that I need to enter a compass reading for azmuth and a gps for latitude to get it right, then I will use LB3.0. But so far I don't see the evidence. The first round hit yesterday at 1395 was done with only a dial up. Windage knob was on zero. Maybe it was luck? But if so I was lucky again today on 4 shots in 3 different directions and distances.

No disrespect ment by my posts. I simply call it like I see it. I know for sure all this has better educated me and for that I THANK YOU ALL!

More practise will tell.

Jeff
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  #84  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:50 AM
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Re: Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Hi Jeff,
My post is simply a response to Eaglets point on the PDA operation. I wish I had known that right from the beginning. But now I know.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings with your process, course of action, or preference in ballistic software. I'd guess others feel the same, even though they express a difference of preference. I think you should use whatever software you like the best. Shooting & hunting is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, so you should run whichever ballistics software that makes your experience most rewarding. Same with chronos versus no chronos. I say live & let live.

Periodically I meet a guy where I shoot that typically comes supplied with 50-100 newly reloaded .308 Win rounds for an afternoon shoot. He doesn't leave till they're all gone. I typically show up with 4 to 12 loaded rounds, set up the chronographs, methodically shoot and collect my data at the 300 yd target - then head home content. The other fellow shoots all 50 - 100 rounds at the 100 yd target in fairly rapid 5-shot groups. Always 5-shot groups. He mentioned he's a Sniper's Hide frequenter. I don't think he really even hunts. If he does, he doesn't mention it. When he's done, he packs up and heads home, seemingly just as content as me. I say good for him. He asks me a few questions every now and then and I likewise express some interest in his latest loads, groups, or whatever. We share some areas of interest and depart on others. He's a pleasant fellow to shoot with.

Anyhow, this example is simply to say - none of us is exactly alike. You shoot a lot more than I do, have better access to wide open countryside to stretch your marksmanship skills, and share those experiences and photos with the rest of us - many of us wishing we had equal ease of good access to such distant targets. I say good for you and good for us. If one method or the another serves your interests better then go with the one that's most rewarding for your own use. This is about you enhancing your hobby, or meeting your personal goals in the most rewarding way.

I wonder how you navigate at the 1000 plus yard ranges without correction for Coriolis and spin drift. As soon as I jumped out to 1000 yds I was befuddled with those two factors. Took a short time to research & educate myself on their affects. First I just cheated my 300 yd zero over to the left ~ 3 1/2 inches so that my 1000yd POIs were good L-R. Then I got LB and now I allow the software to include that correction. I could, and have, dealt with it both ways. But I did have to deal with it one way or another. I would think at your 1300 yd targets that you'd need to make the allowance and you probably do using some method - known or unknown. For example, I know 'jwp475' posts pictures time and again showing his ~1000 +yd targets with the hits dead-centered, and he scoffs at spindrift. Says he makes no allowance for it whatsoever and hits right on L-R wise, from the muzzle out to those distant ranges. I find the difference in experiences interesting. I'm sure he's being affected by it, but some how or another, he's offsetting for it without even knowing it. I'm at 60.4* Lat and that adds a bit more coriolis, but not so much more that coriolis plus spindrift shouldn't still be experienced at 46* Lat in your location, or his. And spindrift is spindrift no matter where one is located on the surface of the earth.

I'm interested on the path you follow to match your field drops, so I'll monitor any posts you offer. Good shooting... seriously!

Last edited by phorwath; 06-10-2010 at 02:22 AM.
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