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Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

 
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  #36  
Old 05-16-2011, 09:46 PM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

Sounds good! Ordered it in .25-06 to start with? Why not?

You may find, as I did, that the Remington barrel although rough, is pretty doggone accurate with the right loads. I'm almost reluctant to contemplate replacing mine anymore... Will have to be done someday though.

Let us know how it works out, deer should be in terror this coming fall, and coyotes & varmints before then!

Guy
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  #37  
Old 05-16-2011, 09:58 PM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

I guess I should have mentioned, I did order it in 25-06. The plan, as always, is to shoot it, then make the minimum change I think it will take (whether that turns out to be bedding, or truing and rebarrel, or something completely different), shoot it, make an upgrade, shoot it, rinse, lather, repeat. I don't intend to make the mistake (or at least I see it as one) of "overcustomizing" all at once...before I have any idea of what it is capable of. If I get acceptable accuracy with the factory barrel I will shoot it out before rebarrelling for the longer length I would like someday.
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  #38  
Old 05-16-2011, 10:41 PM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr400 View Post
I guess I should have mentioned, I did order it in 25-06. The plan, as always, is to shoot it, then make the minimum change I think it will take (whether that turns out to be bedding, or truing and rebarrel, or something completely different), shoot it, make an upgrade, shoot it, rinse, lather, repeat. I don't intend to make the mistake (or at least I see it as one) of "overcustomizing" all at once...before I have any idea of what it is capable of. If I get acceptable accuracy with the factory barrel I will shoot it out before rebarrelling for the longer length I would like someday.
You're on the right track, see what it will do before you dump a bunch of money into it.

Just be aware that sometimes free-floating the barrel will greatly improve accuracy, other times it will decrease accuracy (group size) with the same load.

I am assuming that the ADL doesn't come floated (just like my BDL) but instead has a "pressure pad" bedding from the factory.?

After having mine bedded and free-floated, groups actually opened up with the same exact ammo.............stands to reason right? The barrel harmonics are now different. Nothing that a small change in load shouldn't be able to fix, but if you are limited to factory ammo, that small change in load could mean a totally different ammo brand/bullet type.

Still, that being said; I'd personally rather have the consistency of a floated barrel/bedded action, even if that sometimes means a slight increase in moa's. ESPECIALLY on a light weight medium range big game gun.

Great things about remington actions, alot of good gunsmiths work on them, and you can get excellent triggers for them. I've never had a problem feeding or cycling/ejecting problem with a remington either. The X-mark pro trigger will go down to about 2.5 lbs (at least the one I had did anyway), but you can get Timneys, Rifle Basix, Jewell's and others that will go less safely.
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Last edited by SBruce; 05-16-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:15 AM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBruce View Post
After having mine bedded and free-floated, groups actually opened up with the same exact ammo.............stands to reason right? The barrel harmonics are now different.
No, it doesn't stand to reason. Here's why.

The reason barrels shoot more accurate when free floated is they're clear of the stock's fore end that moves around from holding pressure as it rests on something or from sling tension. When the fore end bends/whips/vibrates and touches the barrel as the shot's fired, the barrel will change the direction and/or amount it wiggles as the bullet goes through it.

But the barreled action's basic frequency it wiggles at does not change. For a given barreled action, it has one low frequency it wiggles at; typically less than 100 hz (cycles per second) that changes the muzzle axis angles it points at. The harmonics of that barrel are multiples of that one low (or fundamental resonant) frequency; 2x, 3x, 4x or second, third or fourth harmonic. These harmonics change the muzzle axis angle very little compared to the big angle caused by the fundamental frequency.

Bolting the barreled action in a stock changes that fundamental frequency a tiny bit because it adds the stock's mass to the system. Mounting a scope changes it a little bit, too.

This is the first time I've heard from anyone that a rifle shoots less accurate after free floating the barrel. If that really happened, it's not because some barreled action whipping/vibrating frequency changed; that doesn't change. As one's removed any interference between barrel and fore end by free floating the barrel, I cannot concieve why accuracy would be worse. So, I think something else changed from original bedding to free floating the barrel.

Last edited by Bart B; 05-17-2011 at 06:18 AM.
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2011, 01:41 PM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

Bart B,

What you are saying, frankly went right over my head.

This isn't the first time I've heard of it with light barrel rifles, but it's the first time I've actually seen it personally. Maybe you know, why is it that so many light barrel factory rifles come with a pressure pad on the forend? Is that what they have to do to get decent groups size out of the box?

I believe that all barrels should be floated so change in stock pressure doesn't cause a shift in POI, but there has to be some reason that so many guns come factory with upward pressure on the barrel at the forend.??

I am no expert on making/building rifles, but I've personally seen bedding/floating give great increase in precision with same load, no change in precision with same load, and now, a small decrease in precision with same load. Bedding/floating was done by a gunsmith I have utmost faith in.

Heres what my light barrel 25-06 could do with one particular handload prior to bedding action/floating barrel, and I fully intend on trying that load again now. Even though precision was plenty good, POI shifted from one day to the next or one season to the next (sometimes more than 1 moa!). Even if my groups are a little bigger, I'll gladly take that over a 5" shift in POI at 300 yds any day. Perhaps I have a bad scope, but will a bad scope occasionally shoot one hole at 100 and 1" at 300?
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Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.-25-06-115-nosler.jpg  
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Last edited by SBruce; 05-18-2011 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Re-wording in first paragraph
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2011, 02:06 PM
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Re: Help me plan out a mid range rifle? .25-06 & light barrel experts needed.

Here's what I mean by POI shift. One morning last fall I fired this group at 300 yds. The very previous evening, I fired another group at 300 yds. The evening group was about twice this size, but the center of it was clearly 3" above the center target (aiming point). The morning group is obviously well below my aiming point. Temperature and benchrest/shooting position were the same both occasions. 3 inch groups at 300 yds are acceptable for what this rifle is used for, but that huge shift in POI was not acceptable.
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