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Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

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  #36  
Unread 01-11-2010, 01:57 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
On the 6.5 bullet that killed the deer in Bud's thread, we should probably remember that bullet went through the heart. About close to the same time I read in another thread where a member had a bullet that failed to expand on a deer twice (on the same deer) and it ran off and died and was recovered some days later with pencil holes through it. ... just trying to get it all in perspective.

Shawn, it's interesting reading your perspective on bullet expansion or lack of it.
Mark
Are there folks who feel full metal jacketed bullets are suitable for large game from 1000 yds on out? My experiences with a couple expanding bullets that never expanded at closer ranges would keep me from attempting shots unless I felt the bullet had a chance to expand. One was a little black bear with a 338 Win Mag at about 275 yds. He was hit good enough that an expanding bullet would have dropped him. Instead it required a burst of followup shots while he was on the run - in the effort to keep him from reaching the brush and timber. So in this experience, not even a 338 caliber non-expanded bullet did the job.

Another Dall sheep at 13 yds with a 280 RCBS Imp. lived pretty comfortable for 15 minutes after being double-lunged, and then lived pretty miserably for 15 minutes before being finished off.

Trying draw out a little more detail on what's being discussed here. Are you of the position that a little bullet expansion is good enough?

I don't think I'm hearing that no expansion is good enough at long range... or am I?
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  #37  
Unread 01-11-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

Paul, In order not to hijack this thread, I started another one in the LR Hunting forum.

Cheers,

Mark
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  #38  
Unread 01-11-2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Paul, In order not to hijack this thread, I started another one in the LR Hunting forum.

Cheers,

Mark
Good call !!!!!
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  #39  
Unread 01-11-2010, 03:34 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

Mark

I have explained how I get thorough life without a chronograph quite a few times on this forum for people who actually have a need to know. It is well documented.

As far as my opinion of bullet expansion at long range I will start this way. Back in the days before there were instant internet experts, everything had to be learned the hard way. This method was very hard on the animals and that's a fact. What I learned was that if you get too much expansion you will not get adequate penetration (this story has been related several times on this forum also and does not bear repeating right now either). When you are out at the limits of your rifle and bullet combination, if you have to choose then, you should choose penetration over expansion. You have to get into the vital organs. If you can get both penetration and expansion then that is great. There are reasons most states prohibit hunting with non-expanding bullet (except for muzzle loaders) and these are good reasons and certainly I am not advocating that those laws be changed. One should consider that being as my background also consists of having used a lot of FMJs in my early days that I am relatively familiar with their characteristics and am not worried about expanding bullets that don't expand. What I have advised is that if you are going to shoot at the margins of a rifle bullet combination it is good to get a big hole in the animal.

If it was legal and if there was a FMJ out there that had a higher BC and would get me better accuracy downrange I would have no hesitancy in using it.
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  #40  
Unread 01-11-2010, 04:33 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
Mark
If it was legal and if there was a FMJ out there that had a higher BC and would get me better accuracy downrange I would have no hesitancy in using it.
I'm already decided on this matter for myself, but are there others that feel OK about shooting game animals at distances where the bullet has dropped substantially below manufacturer's advertised expansion velocity, such that the bullet may not expand? This is a new one to me... the aftermath of my two first-hand experiences were far less than ideal... and they occured at much higher impact velocities than would be experienced at extended ranges.

Seems pertinent to deciding on a suitable cartridge to chamber in a 1-mile rifle... no?
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  #41  
Unread 01-11-2010, 04:54 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

For the reading impaired. One more time real slowly. This is what I advised him about killing a deer at a mile:

Quote:
If I was gong to start all over I would first decide between two different routes.

One route would be to build only one rifle and the second would be to build two rifles.

The one rifle route would be a 20 pound moderate 338 such as the edge. This would provide a decent barrel life so I could practice with it frequently. It would not have the best ballistic capabilities so there would be extra skill needed to achieve the end results.

Second path would be to build a 338-408 and a 308. Use the 308 to gain the skill to deal with the far end of the trajectory when sensitivity to wind and range finding is most critical. Use the larger rifle only to test out its trajectory and get a drop chart set up. Setting up a drop chart out to 2K is no trivial matter.

I personally am not planning on starting all over. I have a 7mm that easily reaches a mile.
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  #42  
Unread 01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
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Re: Help me build a 1 mile rifle...

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
Mark

I have explained how I get thorough life without a chronograph quite a few times on this forum for people who actually have a need to know. It is well documented.
I hope there's no misunderstnding, I dont doubt your method as it seems to work well for you and I am very interested in learning about it.... especially as I loose more confidence im chronys. I've tried the search function using various combinations of chronograph, chrony, buffalobob and load development with no luck, or in some cases overwhelming numbers of threads to wade through. Do you have a suggested search word or phrase or bettter yet, direct link?

Quote:
As far as my opinion of bullet expansion at long range I will start this way. Back in the days before there were instant internet experts, everything had to be learned the hard way. This method was very hard on the animals and that's a fact. What I learned was that if you get too much expansion you will not get adequate penetration (this story has been related several times on this forum also and does not bear repeating right now either). When you are out at the limits of your rifle and bullet combination, if you have to choose then, you should choose penetration over expansion. You have to get into the vital organs. If you can get both penetration and expansion then that is great. There are reasons most states prohibit hunting with non-expanding bullet (except for muzzle loaders) and these are good reasons and certainly I am not advocating that those laws be changed. One should consider that being as my background also consists of having used a lot of FMJs in my early days that I am relatively familiar with their characteristics and am not worried about expanding bullets that don't expand. What I have advised is that if you are going to shoot at the margins of a rifle bullet combination it is good to get a big hole in the animal.

If it was legal and if there was a FMJ out there that had a higher BC and would get me better accuracy downrange I would have no hesitancy in using it.
Good post, I dont completely agree but I think it would make a great contribution to this thread if you cared to paste it in

Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 01-11-2010 at 05:11 PM.
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