I just read this thread and my two cents would be to go with a 7AM and get two barrels. By the time you're proficient at 1 mile you might need the second barrel, I probably would A 7 RUM will sure get you to a mile supersonic, but it will be close. I'm not sure the Rem 700 is the best action fot the AM, but it could probably be done. If you go with the RUM, you may as weel get two barrelsl also. The difference between the AM and the RUM is probably about 200-300 fps. One advantage to the RUM is it will be a lot cheaper up front and a little easier on barrels.
Yep, shooting animals at a mile is a very tricky endeavor, one must master respiration,heartbeat, deviation in velocities, updrafts, downdrafts, crosswinds, halfwinds, fishtails, angular deviation, and inclination angle just to mention a few of the problems. Now you need to know how far the animal is from you. How many of you have range finders that will accurately and consistantly range 1 mile on something the size and reflectivity of a deer or elk. Oh, by the way you will have to know within 10 yds or so. Well I reckon most mortals have fell out of the race by now. For the ones still in the hunt, my hat is off to you and you have my utmost respect. Now there is one more thing. How in the hell do you read the animals mind. If he decides to pick up his head and walk about the time you sqeeze off, you will completely miss if you're lucky.
Now to the original question. There really isnt a lot of choices. I personally wouldnt consider anything less than the 338s. The 375 Chey, 408 or 50 BMG would be better providing acceptable bullets were used.
I just read this thread and my two cents would be to go with a 7AM and get two barrels. /QUOTE]
bigngreen alluded to the barrel life also.
From what I am experiencing with my 270 AM w/a Lilja 3 groove barrel, life expectancy on a single barrel may well be sufficient in the 7mm AM with the 200 gr Wildcats. Additionally, the number of shots to get up and running to 1500 will be less than I have shot with my "searching for an alternate bullet" process.
Most shots and will be taken working the drop chart out to the Mile Mark. It will be way more time consuming than bullet consuming.
Also, if you wish to start in 2010 you may wish to get on the smith's schedule pretty quick.
There really isnt a lot of choices. I personally wouldnt consider anything less than the 338s. The 375 Chey, 408 or 50 BMG would be better providing acceptable bullets were used.
To shoot rocks/steel at one mile, buy a 7mm RUM if you're set on a 7mm caliber cartridge.
To shoot deer at one mile, get a 338 Allen Magnum, or 375 Allen Magnum or some other equivalent (or larger) case capacity cartridge as ID'd above.
To harvest large game, it has to be a real shooter. I'd say consistently less than 0.5 MOA even out to the farthest ranges you plan to shoot deer. Otherwise you'll be shooting patterns rather than groups. This pretty much means you need to plan on a rifle assembled by a quality gunsmith that's doing everything correctly to increase the odds of great accuracy.
As MR stated, the 7mms will burn the throats and barrels out about the time you find a good load and feel like you're beginning to really have some fun. Which isn't the end of the world, as long as you're not surprised when accuracy and consistency fall off and it's time for a new replacement barrel.
Once you've got your rifle, you begin school and there's a lot of other gear, equipment, gadgets, skill, knowledge, and money (ouch!) that will be required for hunting at extreme ranges. But you can have a lot of fun blasting rocks in the mean time...
After reading Adams 2nd post (#6), he wanted a mile capable rock and gong rifle with deer capability to 1000 yards. He had a pile of 7mm Wildcats and Berger 180 in 7mm and a Rem long action, thus the recommendation for a 7 RUM and perfectly capable for the task at hand.
Since the thread has headed this way, of course I'd recommend a 338 for long range big game work. I like to error to the side of horsepower but do not under estimate the smaller calibers with in reason. I feel sometimes people put to much value on energy and bullet expansion. Those can be valuable assetts but day in and day out, bullet placement and penetration will be the issues to getting the job done. Expansion (provided there is enough penetration ) is a great thing and more energy is always better but be sure to focus on what really counts.
A 7AM with a 200 gr Wildcat will stay supersonic to 2K at sea level depending on exactly the weather conditions. At 5000 ft altitude you can get to about 2500 yards. It will have enough killing power for an east coast whitetail or a small forkhorn mule deer or a doe. As has been said if a person goes that route then you have to have the second barrel chambered and handy to screw in when the first burns up. You have to have a large supply of bullets of the same batch. I bought five hundred wildcat bullets with my rifle and they sort into two groups by weight that is 0.2 grains apart. They were extraordinarily consistent but just a hair difference in final weight. Reject rate was 1%. This is the same reject rate for Sierra MK. All the Wildcats had been pointed so the tips were in better shape than the 308 SMKs I shoot in F-class
To give Brian Litz credit, G1 is a terrible math approximation at these distances. You will pull your hair out trying to get Exbal to work and fit to your data. You can go two routes with Exbal. One route is to say you really donít care about prediction accuracy under 1200 yards and just worry about the long range stuff. The other is to fiddle with the multiple BCs adjusting them and the velocity groupings until you get things as close as you can. I have about a 10% change in BC over 2K of distance.
One other thing Brian said that is true (at least for me) the center of your group that you shoot for drop data to calibrate your BC at 1500 yards on out to 2K is influenced severely by how good of a shot you are and how well you can dope out mirage and updrafts. This part will drive you crazy.
I shoot a 7AM but I never argue the killing efficiency of it versus the 338s at long range. While as Bud Martin showed with his non expanded 6.5 SMK it is not necessary to have bullet expansion to cleanly kill a deer at long range it is advantageous to have as big of a hole as you can get and that makes the larger diameter calibers more effective up front. With a better BC from some of the larger calibers you then have some additional advantages.
I briefly pondered buying some of the Henson 7mm bullets to see if I could get more speed and BC at the same time but was too worried that the testing would burn up my barrel and I do not have a spare laying around. Certainly, if a person was just beginning the process he would be wise to buy a box of those bullets and launch a few to see what the long range drops are like.
BB, if my memory serves me well, I seem to recall you saying on a couple of occcasions that you do not use a chrony. If that's correct, how do you determine and confirm velocity, BC, trajectory, etc?
On the 6.5 bullet that killed the deer in Bud's thread, we should probably remember that bullet went through the heart. About close to the same time I read in another thread where a member had a bullet that failed to expand on a deer twice (on the same deer) and it ran off and died and was recovered some days later with pencil holes through it. Not at all trying to start a tiff, just trying to get it all in perspective.
Shawn, it's interesting reading your perspective on bullet expansion or lack of it. I'm guessing there was no bullet expansion on the 1900 yd deer, but I didn't want to bring it up and start a controversy in your thread. Could you describe the bullet performance, reaction of the deer, autopsy, etc.