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(HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

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Unread 02-01-2010, 10:22 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 214
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test


I have a general committment for March from the technician.

It is my understanding that he will be in West Africa for all of this month. He does have intermittent e-mail access however, and one is waiting for him as we speak.

A number of folks in Las Vegas have made preliminary preparations, and should prove to be excellent witnesses/shooters. Two are rated High Masters in sling, and the organizer is a retired Marine scout sniper.

The system itself will require little in terms of the rifle, or the shooter, to derive a valid BC.

Unread 02-01-2010, 10:46 PM
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: N.GA
Posts: 139
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

We will leave march lose..
A Bullet Smith...
Unread 02-01-2010, 10:53 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fernie BC, Canada
Posts: 218
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Grey Ghost

Have you ever exported any bullets up to Canada? It seems tough to get high BC bullets up here unless you go for the Berger's.
Unread 02-01-2010, 11:26 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 6,068
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Ya know, I think this little get together between Noel and Greyghost is great stuff. And to think that if we would have all been good boys and girls, this probaly never would have happened.

How does that saying go? Iron sharpens iron....

I hope Mr Henson proves my doubts wrong.....
Unread 02-02-2010, 12:18 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,895
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Originally Posted by Jon A View Post

Most reasonable people feel false advertising is a lousy thing. It might surprise you to know, if done to a large enough extent there are even laws against it--not that this rises to that level of course but as an example to you that society generally frowns upon the practice. You seem to be the exception.


Are you claiming false advertising or not? If so, then make your case and file your report to Len or the Forum Police. If not, then all you've done is present another half-hearted allegation in the effort to what? Save other Forum members from potential abuse? How about these two ID's for you; 1) MJ for Marshall Jon when you fill lead role, and 2) DJ for Deputy Jon when serving backup on Forum Police Duty.

Why you feel the need to first deny it happened, then defend it as OK, then attack people here as if we have done something wrong is beyond explanation. I'm not sure what I've denied? The posting of a BC number by LV? Why would I deny it if it's present in his post? On the other hand you've stepped in the muck over the boots and denied the number's credibility. So what's the correct BC? Can't very well know LV's BC lacks credibility unless you know the true BC. Just give us the MJ BC with MJ's limits of precision and settle the issue for all less-capable members. Or if in your mind, Bryan's already provided the 'true' BC for this bullet, then I pose the same question to you as I already have to Mark. Why the continuing harrassment? Is it for the thrill of the ride? Might want to pull the plank out of your own eye so you can see your posts for what they are now that I've pulled them out of the shadows and into the light of day.

I hope you enjoy the bullets. Nobody cares how much you love them. Now you've stooped into the gutter while shining light on your own arrogance. Arrogance to presume everyone on this Forum agrees with you. Arrogant enough to speak on behalf of ALL other forum members. That's what happens when you wrap yourself around the axle and type before you think. Not the actions of a reasonable person. If you claim they have a BC of .9, then you should expect people to question you. We can call you "LV2." Reasonable person that I am, this can only be characterized as child-like behavior. Hey, I just did what you've been doing in the thread. I didn't clearly make the claim you were a child. I simply alluded to child-like. Better yet, you're in a difficult position. If you characterize this post as an attack, then you also characterize your own posts as attackful. So which is it?
Time for a popcorn break... I'll tune in later for the return volley

Last edited by phorwath; 02-02-2010 at 12:23 AM.
Unread 02-02-2010, 12:38 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The rifle range, or archery range or behind the computer in Alaska
Posts: 3,830
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

On the topic of finding BC's. My take is that for average LRH ranges say 0-700 yards, the 2 chrony method works rather well most of the time. When you exceed that, it can still work decently but you cannot get a drag model from the typical 2 chrony method. The drop test (IMHO) is better for determining a drag model versus a BC.

Twice last year I ran different bullets over 2 seperate chronies. After gathering the data and examining the numbers I was able to set up at 700 yards and both times make first round hits in the center of the X ring. When I say the center of the X ring I meen the center of the X ring. 2 different bullets, two different months at 2 different locations. One bullet was off by .015 from published and the other was .009 from published. It was simple, easy and obviously VERY effective. Sight in, double chrony, verify zero, shoot 700 yards, life is good.

It should be noted that both chronies were fired over together at 100 yards lined up with eachother perfectly. One is 32 FPS faster than the other. Several bullets were fired over both several different times at 100 yards and close up. The verdict was always 32-33 FPS. I simply would fire over both (600 feet apart CL to CL) and would deduct 32 FPS from the faster chrony. At times when the lighting, wind and mirage cooperate, I will set them up 900' apart. Most of the time however, 600' (200 yards) has to do.

Is doppler rader the best way? I think so. Are double chronies effective? Absolutely. I have worked in the past with pressure transducers and a high speed clock for time of flight and it is a royal pain in the ***** as well as expensive with all the hardware, software, cables etc..... I dont mess with it any more due to the simplicity of the double chrony method. It may not give you first round 1000 yard X's but sure will get you on paper.
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
Unread 02-02-2010, 06:12 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,092
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Wow Paul, you really have gone off the deep end here. But I'll play along so that it may benefit others.
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
Are you claiming false advertising or not?
Can you not read? I'll speak slowly for you. Yes, the BC claims made by LV are total, complete and utter BS. Fantasy. Was that clear enough for you?

This does not mean the bullets have low BC's or are bad bullets. In fact, I'm sure they have very good BC's and enough people have had good luck with them accuracy and terminal performance wise to conclude they are good bullets. As mentioned I bought a bunch of them and if my barrel had liked them better I would have used them with whatever BC I measured--which I'm sure would have been quite good.

But that, or even if you assume for the sake of argument they're the best bullets in the world does not justify furthering the BC fantasy that has been presented. That benefits nobody. In fact, it harms readers by misinforming them.
If not, then all you've done is present another half-hearted allegation in the effort to what?
An effort to help people. I come from a family of teachers, I guess it's in my nature. I want to help people understand. Long range enthusiasts reading this will buy a ton of bullets over the years. Helping them understand the hows and the whys of what bullets do what they do so they can understand the subject matter better and make good choices in the future is something you can try an demonize if you want, I guess, but I don't think it's very helpful to anybody here.

You can tell from the posts here there is still a great many people who think that longer bullet = higher BC! A large percentage of HAT bullet buyers likely use that as a reason to believe the BC's because that's what LV has told them. This bullet is X long compared with a 300 SMK therefore its BC must be Y! The sooner these people understand what gives a bullet BC, the better off they'll be.

The overwhelming majority of the drag on a bullet happens at its nose and its tail. When you have a nose and a tail shape that are not much different than many other bullets out there, you simply can't get a form factor radically different from those other bullets either.

So when you're stuck with a certain level of form factor, you can only realistically expect so much BC for a certain sectional density. There is no trick. There is no magic way around it. You can increase the aluminum percentage in the bullet and make it longer, and longer, and longer....but unless you change the shape of the nose or the tail or make the bullet HEAVIER, you will not increase the BC.

These are simple facts of exterior ballistics. Hunters and LR shooters are often very resistant to accepting them because getting something for nothing always sounds like more fun--a light bullet that still works through your magazine (same nose length) but has the BC of a much heavier bullet but you can launch it much faster! Doesn't that sound great?

The sooner people understand how things work and recognize what aspects of bullet design do and which ones don't increase BC the sooner they'll be able to make choices that suit them best and spend their money wisely and the more they'll demand from bullet makers bullets that work better for their application.

Now if that is a purpose you feel deserves continued attack; a purpose you feel is somehow for the sake of my own personal gain (what on earth would that be?), I feel sorry for you. The only thing you're shining a light on is yourself.

If I started sending you bills for my time in providing these consultations at my hourly rate, then you might have a case I was attempting to exact some sort of personal gain.
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