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(HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

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  #113  
Unread 02-01-2010, 06:44 PM
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Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by edge View Post
Personally this BC thing seems to be a ******* contest! Unless someone is shooting doppler radar the numbers will always be suspect! Barometric pressure isn't constant and neither is temperature.

Now there are others that can devise a better plan than I, but IMO, to calculate drops NOTHING should change!

IMO, the shooter should have a reasonable zero, LV used 400 yards.
The shooter should not adjust the scope as that WILL induce error!
Shoot a 100 yard target, and as many intermediate targets as he is inclined to shoot out to the maximum distance available.
Targets should be interchanged long /short, short/long thereby showing any changes in conditions...and followed by a shot at the zero distance. EG: 100 / 1000, 900 / 200, 300 / 800 etc.

IMO, unless someone sets out to deceive their audience, the drops will give a good 3d picture of the trajectory.

This is a test that anyone could or should be able to reproduce. Obviously a charlatan could just adjust the point of aim to make any drop work, but if 2 or 3 other shooters could not reproduce the results then the hoax should be unveiled quickly! Anyone with Excel can use the drops to show where his/her bullet should land based on those numbers!

edge.
Putting aside the "******* contest", that's all good in theory, but the problem is, it is not at all precise in the field. All your parameters, zero, drop measurements, atmospheric conditions, etc., must be measured precisely to gat an accurate BC. Instrumentation, such as chrony's and or doppler at muzzle and down range for differentional velocities are by far the best way to detrmine BC. Measuring one set of drops from 400 yds to 948 is not as accurate as measuring several sets of drops from 100 to 1000 yds, which is not as accurate as shooting through two chrony's.

  #114  
Unread 02-01-2010, 06:53 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by edge View Post
Personally this BC thing seems to be a ******* contest! Unless someone is shooting doppler radar the numbers will always be suspect! Barometric pressure isn't constant and neither is temperature.

Now there are others that can devise a better plan than I, but IMO, to calculate drops NOTHING should change!

IMO, the shooter should have a reasonable zero, LV used 400 yards.
The shooter should not adjust the scope as that WILL induce error!
Shoot a 100 yard target, and as many intermediate targets as he is inclined to shoot out to the maximum distance available.
Targets should be interchanged long /short, short/long thereby showing any changes in conditions...and followed by a shot at the zero distance. EG: 100 / 1000, 900 / 200, 300 / 800 etc.

IMO, unless someone sets out to deceive their audience, the drops will give a good 3d picture of the trajectory.

This is a test that anyone could or should be able to reproduce. Obviously a charlatan could just adjust the point of aim to make any drop work, but if 2 or 3 other shooters could not reproduce the results then the hoax should be unveiled quickly! Anyone with Excel can use the drops to show where his/her bullet should land based on those numbers!

edge.
I would propose a different method only because it would be easier.
Use an accurate rifle, and make sure both bullets are dead on at 100 yards to within less than 0.5".
Chronograph both loads at the same time with the same chronograph.
Shoot at the distance where the bullet is expected to be doing 1500 fps according to its claimed B.C. (say 1500 yards or whatever but make sure that substantial drop is involved.)

Check the drop at this distance and compare. It will quickly tell you if the B.C. is not right and give you a good indication of what it actually is. This would be the quickest and simplest way.
Latter you can shoot at mid range etc as a check on the new B.C. figure if you had the time.
This may not give you an exact B.C. but it would certainly be a good check of one bullet compared to another.
You could even use a well known bullet with a widely accepted B.C. as a standard to compare the test bullet against. This would be a fair comparison and negate differences in environmental conditions.
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  #115  
Unread 02-01-2010, 08:53 PM
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Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

I have a problem with someone saying that their rifle is "Zeroed" at a specific range!

Too much can be speculation as to aim and center of group!

Multiple drops measure front to back and back to front take into account varying range conditions. Most spreadsheets can extrapolate interim points and those can be measured against others results. Distance is the easiest thing to measure...IMO

IMO, once someone touches their scope that brings in a whole new set of variables!

Most folks can't shoot two chronographs over long distances, but drop is drop!
You still need barometric pressure for any measurements so that is a given.

edge.
  #116  
Unread 02-01-2010, 09:31 PM
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Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Wouldn't any BC derived from one gun shooting over two chronos at even extreme distances still be so statistically biased to be almost unusable. It would still let initial muzzle velocity, throat design, pressure curve, twist rate, barrel finish and a zillion other things change the out come. I am just saying that that two different bullets may show the same launch conditions as far as velocity but may be in different conditions during flight! There is even the argument of under/over stabilized and on and on........... no matter what numbers ever get posted there will always be some fight over it!
  #117  
Unread 02-01-2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by edge View Post
Unless someone is shooting doppler radar the numbers will always be suspect!
This is simply not true. Dopplar is wonderful and easily the best for those who can afford it, but it is not the only way to get very accurate numbers. Precisely measuring time of flight or change in velocity over a distance can provide numbers more than accurate enough for what we do here and many times as accurate as measuring drops in the manor described in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylabs View Post
Wouldn't any BC derived from one gun shooting over two chronos at even extreme distances still be so statistically biased to be almost unusable.
No. Unless the twist is WAY off, the BC isn't going to change that much. The old, "Out of my barrel this bullet has a .9 BC, out of yours it might only have a .5 BC, etc" stuff is largely mythology.
  #118  
Unread 02-01-2010, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 214
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Edge,

"Most people can't shoot two chronographs over long distances."... Except when you are trying for the screens, I hate when that happens.

The SAAB system is acoustic, and measures not only point velocity, but impact placement on x, and y, coordinates. If it is drop which you want, that data is also available in real time, from multiple rifles.

This should be very interesting for all of us.
  #119  
Unread 02-01-2010, 10:05 PM
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Posts: 139
Re: (HAT) Henson Aluminum Tipped Bullet 338 Rum Test

Hey Noel

What calander day are we looking at, LV and I are firming up our next two months at the HAT test facility in Goose creek when can we pencil ya in?

RG...
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