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Group size at what range?

 
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2010, 12:44 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird63 View Post
Am not trying to start any arguments here, but I use to believe that therory that a bullet goes to sleep until I read a book "Precision shooting at 1000 yards" by Dave Brennan. On page 224 he is ask a question about working up a 1000 yard load and in part of his answer he says "This stuff about a bullet going to sleep and finally settling down out there past 300 yards is so much bullhockey and makes me laugh".
I truely believe some guns just will not shoot some bullets. My sendero won't shoot berger bullets, the only bullets it seems to like are accubonds and 208 A-Max bullets. But I have not shot out to 1000 yards yet either. Just 500 yards.
I love it when and editor/writer/pundit laughs !
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:32 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

Edge, I am shooting a swaroski 4-12 with a rail mount, I cleaned the barrel and my groups tightened up. How many shots between cleanings or do you clean the bore between each shooting session? This gun is a stainless model and it seems to heat up quite fast, after 3-4 rounds would the heat be causing some of the group growth?
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2010, 02:16 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

I figure he must have some clue as he is a benchrest shooter and has probably shot more rounds down the tube then many of us can only imagine.
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:17 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

Freebird63,

Just for the sake of conversation, how do you explain that a rifle can shoot 1/2 moa groups at 100 yards, 1/3 moa groups at 300 yards and 1/5 moa groups at 500 yards?

To put that into actual inches. This particular rifle averaged 0.7" to 0.8" ctc three shot groups at 100 yards. Shot between 0.9" and 1.1" groups at 300 yards and has shot SEVERAL sub 1" ctc three shot groups at 500 yards.

I have seen this with many rifles, also, the longer the bullet, the faster the twist, the faster the bullet is driven, the more dramatic this group size reduction can be when measured in MOA.

Do not care what you call it, it happens, perhaps its being mislabeled but it certainly is real and it certainly happens.

Now with low intensity, relatively short bullets at moderate speeds in conventional twist rates, it is not nearly as dramatic or measurable.

This is really a moot point, until the rifle in question is properly tested from a solid shooting position, we can not begin to say why the groups are increasing in size. Shooting from a sitting position is no way to find the accuracy potential of a rifle. Great for field practice but not for evaluating a loads consistancy or a rifles accuracy potential.
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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  #12  
Old 10-04-2010, 10:33 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

Like I had said Kirby I didn't want to start any arguments here, just reporting what a benchrest shooter has come up with. I know my sendero will shoot great groups at 100 yards,yes even bergers, but when I move out beyond that my groups go to hell. Nothing I did would bring them closer. I have put more rounds through my sendero then I care to mention. I have a funny feeling come next hunting season I will have had to had it worked into a 338 because the barrel will be shot out. Not every gun shoots every bullet. My wifes gun loves 150gr accubonds, but does not like barnes or bergers.
Its also just like I have read that the 168 bergers are not the most reliable long range bullet "just stuff I have read". Right now everyone is jumping on the berger bandwagon, whether they have heard it by word of mouth of watched best of the west or the byond belief DVD's. Bergers are not going to shoot in every gun. My gunsmith just recently found out that the bergers would not fly past 500 yards with his custom 300RUM, so he switched to barnes. Keep an open mind to other bullets and maybe other powders and or primers.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2010, 11:49 PM
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Re: Group size at what range?

I have never been on the Berger Band wagon by any means. In fact all of my wildcats do nothing but eat them up and tear them apart. I have never put one into a big game animal.

I do not think anyone has every said a rifle will shoot every bullet. All I am saying is that if you get 3/4 moa or better groups, I would check that load at longer ranges before passing on it thinking you will get much better performance with a tighter 100 yard group load.

What bullet and chambering are you shooting in the sendero?

Back to my original comments, this rifle that is in question on the original post needs to be evaluated properly from a solid bench shooting position if its accuracy potential is every to be realized. That was my original point and still stands. Shooting from a sitting position is not the position to evaluate a rifle or loads consistancy or accuracy potential at any range.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:12 PM
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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Re: Group size at what range?

Kirby I know you build awesome guns, why do you think I contacted you first about rebarreling my sendero when I feel the barrel is gone. You know your stuff. I find that if I look at what everyone is saying and then try some of it for myself then I can make my own decisions. I am new to this long range stuff my self.
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