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Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

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  #50  
Unread 02-05-2010, 02:06 PM
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Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

Mark,

No, that was not a typo. You might also have noticed that weights are identical across a number of calibers in various projectile lengths.

What you are seeing is the logical consequence of obviating two previous hurdles to bullet manufacture. Turned engraving-band projectiles permit the following ;

- Designing to the limits of form factor optimization without the fouling, and attendant ES spread seen in jacketed bullets, by a drastically reduced, and refined, bearing surface.

- Maximum projectile mass, regardless of length, through use of plastic densified tungsten cores.

The ZA30/5.8-W is purpose built to derive the maximum performance possible, within the constraints of a magazine fed rifle. They should stabilize from an exit twist of, up to, 27 calibers.
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  •   #51  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 02:22 PM
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    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: MS
    Posts: 1,652
    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Jeff,

    Everything sounds good so long as I can bring my buddies and get them in. If someone will find some 200gr wildcats we can test them also. Right now it looks like .375 rocky mountains, 338 Hats, 300gr smks are the only bulets we will be shooting.

    Cheytac based rounds okay at the range? As far as targets in the desert can we drive out to set up targets? Will the equipment be used in the desert or only at the range, since we cannot shoot very far at the range? I still do not have a definitive date, May 1?

    I am really looking forward to meeting you guys and shooting
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      #52  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 05:17 PM
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    Join Date: Dec 2009
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    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GREYGHOSTt View Post
    Noel,

    Plan on a three day shooting event with a fourth day set aside for a rain makeup.

    --Day one will be for performing mundane tasks (ie signing release forms, range briefs, zeroing the guests firearms and last but not least to exhibit the shooters proficiency on the 600 yard range prior to being cleared to shoot at the longer ranges).

    --Day two will be for shooting drops (specifically the HATS, Sierra, Bergers and Noel's bullets) only. We will shoot these drops commencing at 30 minutes prior to sunrise and until conditions appear that will prevent "sanitized" shooting conditions.

    Note: Days, weeks, months or even years down the road, we do not want any possible excuses based on range conditions.

    I will be shooting the 85-lb gun free recoil without any shooter input except for touching the trigger. All aiming points will be verified by witnesses when shooters are shooting free recoil and if they are shooting shoulder-fired method, we will use an inclinometer placed next to their guns to verify that they are not "fudging" their holds. All judgments will be that of the range officer as outlined, signed and agreed to by all parties on day one.

    --Day three will be set aside for the instrumental testing.

    --Day four will only be necessary if one of the above days is a rain out.

    We are going to keep it as simple and safe as possible. The guests need to understand that they are on private property and will be behind locked gates. They must be under escort at all times and they must obey all directions of the club representatives.

    These are fairly straight forward and are within the types of rules most legitimate clubs require of their members.

    Almost forgot, at the end of each day we will have an outbrief that reviews the days events and formulates the internet report that will be filed each and every day with the highlights of the events of that specific day. On the last day the outbrief will include the review of the entire event and the final report that will be place on all shooting forums that would be interested.

    Finally, we will not file an official report on LRH due to its' limited access.

    That about sums it up.

    James
    I've been following some of these strings and it would seem that if there was controversy surrounding this bullet, one would wish to be totally transparent.

    Why in the world would someone post the above and then say "by the way, we are not posting the results". Perhaps I missed some of the strings, but this seems like game playing to me.

    just my 2 cents
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      #53  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 06:29 PM
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    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noel carlson View Post
    Mark,

    No, that was not a typo. You might also have noticed that weights are identical across a number of calibers in various projectile lengths.

    What you are seeing is the logical consequence of obviating two previous hurdles to bullet manufacture. Turned engraving-band projectiles permit the following ;

    - Designing to the limits of form factor optimization without the fouling, and attendant ES spread seen in jacketed bullets, by a drastically reduced, and refined, bearing surface.

    - Maximum projectile mass, regardless of length, through use of plastic densified tungsten cores.

    The ZA30/5.8-W is purpose built to derive the maximum performance possible, within the constraints of a magazine fed rifle. They should stabilize from an exit twist of, up to, 27 calibers.
    Noel,

    Thanks for the answers and hope you don mind the questions. What are the "W" and "M" designations? I take it that 27 calibers in a .308 bore would be equivilant to about an 8.3" twist? What twist would the 6.5 cal 240 bullet require? Are you still working with HE propellants and cobalt barrels?
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      #54  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 07:10 PM
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    Join Date: Mar 2009
    Posts: 214
    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Mark,

    "W" stands for wolfram, element 74 (tungsten). It has a tendency to bind tenaciously to tin, so much so that it was said to "devour" it... hence the Latin "wolf".

    "M" just means match. I thought that would be the simplest way to differentiate the less costly solids from the frangible PDT cored projectiles.

    You are correct, a 27 caliber twist on a 30 is 8.3". A 6.5 caliber "solid" (non-cored) projectile requires an 18 caliber twist. The added gyroscopic stability tungsten affords, in an equivalent projectile length, is uncertain. I am making the core as large in diameter, and as short in length, as possible however. We will have that answer soon.

    There is alot still going on with the rest of the system. I can not discuss changes yet, but there have been advances since the last time I discussed this.

    Best,
    Noel
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      #55  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 09:30 PM
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    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: Washington State
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    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noel carlson View Post
    Mark,

    The following list is tentative;

    ZA30/5.8-W (175 & 240 grain)
    ZA30/6.5-W (240 grain)

    ZA338/6.0-W (300 grain)
    ZA338/6.5-M (300 grain)
    ZA338/7.0-M (315 grain)

    ZA375/6.0-W (420 grain)
    ZA375/6.5-W (420 grain)
    ZA375/7.0-W (420 grain)

    ZA50/6.0-M (800 grain)

    Some of these may still be in beta testing by the meet date, in which case they will not be publicly demonstrated.

    Best,
    Noel
    Noel,

    Is there a way you could list each bullet above and then list next to it, in inches of twist (10.2 twist, etc.) the predicted barrel twist necessary to fully stabilize the bullet as sea level?

    Also, would you please list in inches the length of these bullets?

    I can appreciate the simplicity of listing things in calibers but it would give me a much quicker way to assess these bullets if you could convert some of this to inches.

    Still learning to speak new languages...

    Sincerely,

    Jon
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      #56  
    Unread 02-05-2010, 09:44 PM
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    Join Date: May 2008
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    Posts: 6,068
    Re: Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noel carlson View Post
    The ZA30/5.8-W is purpose built to derive the maximum performance possible, within the constraints of a magazine fed rifle. They should stabilize from an exit twist of, up to, 27 calibers.
    Another question... is that twist for both the 175 and 240 bullets?

    And, if I could launch the 175 at say 3600 fps would that affect the minimum required twist?
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