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Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

 
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  #29  
Old 06-25-2012, 02:28 AM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

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Originally Posted by durak View Post
I know first hand one of the reasons that Shilen is anti-fluting - Law suits - I know of a Shilen barrel that was fluted by a wanna-be-gunsmith that came apart on a customer. The wanna-be-gunsmith fluted it to close to the bore and after the second shot it came apart. We all know what happened next - law suit against the builder and Shilen. How would you respond if you were Shilen?
First, I'd get some professionals with doctorate degrees in metalurgy and mechanical engineering as expert witnesses. Then let the suit take its course and after winning, leagally pounce on the perpurtrator. How did that suit end up?

Same kind of thing happened years ago when Shooter's Choice bore cleaner first came out. Someone used it and his barrel's accuracy went south. He sued Shooter's Choice but SC proved the barrel had so much fouling in its throat and leade from being eroded away and not cleaned properly. The hardened fouling actually had kept the rifle shooting pretty accurate until it had been removed. Shooter's Choice was declared not guilty.

I watched a just-fluted Hart 30 caliber barrel have its rifled bore measured with a Sheffield air gage. The bubble wiggled as the gauging head was pushed under the back end of the flutes then move up a few tenths, then wiggled a little going by the front end then dropping back to where it started for the last couple of inches.

There may well be machining tools and techniques used today that minimally changes bore and groove diameters. I don't know all that stuff. But if one can flute any finished barrel without changing the bore dimensions, more power too them.

One barrel maker insisted that fluting increased a barrel's rigidity or stiffness. He said he had measured how much a solid blank bent down at its muzzle when held horizontally at the breech end. After fluting, the barrel drooped less. That was his proof. He didn't understand that it drooped less 'cause it weighed less. His son went to college to become a mechanical engineer so I hope the kid was able to show his dad that fluting does in fact make a barrel less rigid.
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:07 AM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
First, I'd get some professionals with doctorate degrees in metalurgy and mechanical engineering as expert witnesses. Then let the suit take its course and after winning, leagally pounce on the perpurtrator. How did that suit end up?

Same kind of thing happened years ago when Shooter's Choice bore cleaner first came out. Someone used it and his barrel's accuracy went south. He sued Shooter's Choice but SC proved the barrel had so much fouling in its throat and leade from being eroded away and not cleaned properly. The hardened fouling actually had kept the rifle shooting pretty accurate until it had been removed. Shooter's Choice was declared not guilty.

I watched a just-fluted Hart 30 caliber barrel have its rifled bore measured with a Sheffield air gage. The bubble wiggled as the gauging head was pushed under the back end of the flutes then move up a few tenths, then wiggled a little going by the front end then dropping back to where it started for the last couple of inches.

There may well be machining tools and techniques used today that minimally changes bore and groove diameters. I don't know all that stuff. But if one can flute any finished barrel without changing the bore dimensions, more power too them.

One barrel maker insisted that fluting increased a barrel's rigidity or stiffness. He said he had measured how much a solid blank bent down at its muzzle when held horizontally at the breech end. After fluting, the barrel drooped less. That was his proof. He didn't understand that it drooped less 'cause it weighed less. His son went to college to become a mechanical engineer so I hope the kid was able to show his dad that fluting does in fact make a barrel less rigid.
The wana-be-gunsmith ended up paying damages - Not sure how Shilen came out of it. I'm sure it pissed them off.... I'm going to look into having a barrel air gauged just to see.

IMHO if the barrel shoots, who cares what the rifling looks like!
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  #31  
Old 06-25-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

Well before you high five all the 'myth busting', don't overlook the builders who know what they're doing. Nor the advantages in holding an actual plan with fluting.

I can choose to run with a 7lb non-fluted barrel with a finished muzzle at 0.750"(as mentioned in the article).
Or,
I can run with a 7lb fluted barrel with a finished muzzle at 1.0", and any fluting I desire -no deeper 0.125".
With this, I'll have a 7lb barrel that's as stiff, or stiffer, than the 0.850(also mentioned), and in no way harms a bore that was lapped in this condition.

I personally doubt it would harm anything even if added later(but I don't know for sure).
And I doubt an air gauge(which provides comparative bore volume, rather than direct measure of bore/land parameters) could identify affects of this action.

Fluting is not the same as re-contouring.
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2012, 06:16 PM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

You guys have some great thoughts on fluted barrels. I always thought stiffer and cools faster. Never thought that in order to cool faster it would heat faster to. Personally I don't care if my rifle is fluted or not. I just want it to shoot, but this is great stuff
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  #33  
Old 06-25-2012, 06:44 PM
RTK RTK is offline
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

I really don't care either way, unfortunately most of my guns shoot better than me most of the time anyway.
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2012, 07:50 PM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

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Originally Posted by RTK View Post
I really don't care either way, unfortunately most of my guns shoot better than me most of the time anyway.
Don't feel bad about that. All of our guns shoot more accurate than we do. Put a rifle in a machine rest (accuracy cradle?) and test it's accuracy. It'll shoot smaller groups then when we hold it against our shoulder with our hands. Which is why benchresters typically shoot their rifles in free recoil; the stock's configured to a virtual machine rest that gets pushed back into battery (firing position) to the exact same position for each shot and the only thing on it that's touched by us humans is its few-ounce trigger.

Best example's when high power match rifle shooters test rifles in a machine rest such as the one below used by David Tubb and a few others:



they'll shoot inside 3 inches at 600 yards with good ammo all day long. When held by one of us slung up in prone and using aperture front and rear sights, we throw parties if all 20 record shots go inside 9 inches and most of them are inside the 6 inch X-ring. If a scope's used, we celebrate if all 20 shots go inside 7 inches and nearly all in that X-ring.
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2012, 07:53 PM
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Re: Does fluting affect barrel accuracy?

That thing is awesome I'd love to test one of my rifles in that thing
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