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custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

 
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2003, 07:48 PM
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Re: custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

I am really hoping it is just a loading issue.

Brent, the barrel pad I refered to is the area of epoxy that is often placed under the first 2 inches of the barrel, out from the action. That is a lot of barrel hanging from the action face. It may just be superstition,...but it seems that it would provide more ridgidity.

The barrel never was heated up. I ran a patch through it each round, and then a dry patch. I never shot it twice in a row for the first 30rnds. I was even using light loads just to do the first break-in session.

I may be totaly off,...but my way of thinking is that if one bullet hole touches another,....they all should. (with the exception of operator error)

Thanks to everyone so far,...your help combined is far greater than any trial and error session that one man can pull off.

keep any suggestions you have coming.

[ 05-26-2003: Message edited by: JustC ]
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2003, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
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Re: custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

I'm with you on the "pad" now. I relieved that area on my Ultra, as it was bedded for two inched down the bbl too. IMHO it can only affect consistancy in a negative way when the bbl temp, or gaurd screw torque changes. One more variable I don't like to deal with, same with the forend touching too.

I'd get to the point you can shoot it steadily for twenty-thirty rounds and NOT clean during this time, to me that's the only way you can rule out it's affect, which IMHO is and will wreck your groups.... If you can get 40-50 rounds out of it without groups opening up, I'd go with it! Cleaning will only make you stop and start over untill it settles down again, that might be 1,2,3,4,5 rounds later... the gun will tell you how many. Cleaning it is likely just twistin your brain at this point, if the problem persists "after" you're in a groove and when know how many shots the gun will take before accuracy falls off, then you may want to take a closer look again. It should go away when you've let it settle in though.
Good luck, sounds like you're off to the races with this one though! [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2003, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
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Re: custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

JustC,
Not sure of your actual barrel dimensions, but I've seen to many floated 30" tapered barrels hanging off from any action without any bedding at all that shot very good.
My 1K BR LG rifle is a Kelbly action with a 30" 1.25 tapered to .940" at the muzzle without ANYTHING touching that barrel and it shoots really good along with 75% of the other LG class rifles I shoot against.

Don't get your yourself backed into a corner in thinking that if 2 touch the other is the "flyer". There's nothing to say that the 2 farthest bullets holes are the normal group and the one that touched a previous bullet hole isn't the flyer. If you've tried this load a couple of times and your bedding/scope/mounts/screws/etc check out as being good to go...... move on to another load and quit running into that brick wall. Without getting my hands on your rifle it's hard to really tell, but I've seen certain loads do this before.

bottom line: if everything mechanical checks out from all the good info above..... change that load. I've got a saying that I have to remind myself of once in awhile. "if you keep doing what your doing... you will keep gettin' what you got" Sounds simple and obvious, but it's true.

Also FYI: when you get 3/4" flyers (I assume we are talking 100yds here) it isn't cases, velocity variations, flash holes, or anything small like that. Those things are for tweaking a load down to that final ragged hole (again assuming 100yds +-).
When you are measuring flyers with a tape measure the problem isn't fixed by measuring your cases, bullets, loaded ammo with a micrometer and/or calipers. It's something mechanical in your rifle, the shooter, or the wrong load. That's what I would be looking at if this were my rifle.

Good luck and let us know.

Steve
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2003, 09:22 PM
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Re: custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

Thanks Steve,...I am glad to hear that about this barrel and others it's size.

One more thing guys,...(for tonight anyway)

I went to check the stock/action screw torque, and the foreward action screw is rounded out. I can probably beat the wrench into it (lightly with a small mallet) and get it loose, but it is toast for anything else.

This has me wondering if the smith tightened it too much, and couldn't get it back out. If it is overtight,...will this cause any significant grouping issue?

I will be placing a call tomorrow and trying to find a delicate way of saying,...."it was like this and, I need another one". It seems funny when I look at it, that I may have a harminics issue and it just so happens to be just this shy of rounded out.

[ 05-26-2003: Message edited by: JustC ]
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2003, 11:56 PM
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custom rifle showing funky groups,.....HELP GUYS!!!!

My 700 action has been trued, my lugs are lapped, I had a sako extractor installed due to the bolt thrust from the 300RUM with 220-240gr pills. The barrel is a 30" pacnor 1:10 finished at 1" and then a Vais break. The trigger is set at 8oz with a consistent break, the stock is an HS Precision (I wanted to shoot it before the MBR was due to arrive) and the recoil lug is hardened stainless at 2x factory thickness. The mounts and rings are Talley with 8x40 screws. the scope is a brand new NXS 8-32x56. All through break-in and even now, it will shoot anything from 169gr lapua to 200gr matchking and even partitions into one hole with varying powder measures,.....BUT the groups are erratic [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

It shoots,..lets say in one place, then the next bullet will place 3/4" away, then the next one or two bullets will cut the first hole. I can't find a correspondence in the cases,...and they have been benchrest prepped, by a benchrest competitor.

What do I check for, or what do I tell the gunsmith to look for? He stated he doesn't think it needs a barrel pad,......but I am thinking it does. The long heavy barrel will sink fairly easily into the barrel channel if given some pressure (not much) I know being that heavy, it probably isn't jumping enough to hit the channel, but I am wondering if it is somehow,.....harmonicaly challenged due to it's weight hanging from the receiver.

Please pick your brains gentlemen,..I am starting to become diseartened and really upset with it's performance for amount invested. I have only fired 40rnds, but the one hole groups shows me it is not the loads,...it is having some randomly occuring issue.
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