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Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

 
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  #50  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:54 AM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

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Originally Posted by Beng View Post
That's not entirely correct. In Sweden and Norway the 6.5x55 has been the military standard cartridge throughout most of the 20th century....

The argument that the 6.5x55 has to be a good moose/big game cartridge since it's been used in scandinavia for so long a time, which you usually read in american not so much in european forums, is not valid. The 6.5x55 has been used because it was the most commonly available cartridge, not because it was better than more reasonable choices (8x57, 9.3x57 -62) and was adapted to it's role by using heavy round nose bullets. It's still being used because it has been used traditionally.
The 6.5x55 is a neat little cartridge, pretty good on european boar, roe deer &c, which usually weigh less than 150#, but it's far from being a good big game cartridge.
Sorry for the rant, I know it's neither applicable to the threads topic, the 6.5x55 is perfectly appropriate for the intended use, nor completely to north of 53's post.
Thanks for the clarification and information. Always good to understand someone else's perspective when large geographical differences are present...
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Matt Roth
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  #51  
Old 08-28-2013, 09:28 AM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

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Originally Posted by Beng View Post
That's not entirely correct. In Sweden and Norway the 6.5x55 has been the military standard cartridge throughout most of the 20th century. Since rifles and ammunition weren't as inexpensive as they are now, the standard issue rifles, which every Home Guard member took home after his conscript service, were used for hunting too. Moose are pretty big animals, to achieve suffiecient penetration out of the barely adequate but common 6.5x55 heavy, slow bullets were required, since there was no bonded core technology available. Partitioned core bullets were often too expensive for the majority of hunters too.
The heavy bullets were all of round nose design, bc was never considered when designing european big game hunting bullets back then.
The argument that the 6.5x55 has to be a good moose/big game cartridge since it's been used in scandinavia for so long a time, which you usually read in american not so much in european forums, is not valid. The 6.5x55 has been used because it was the most commonly available cartridge, not because it was better than more reasonable choices (8x57, 9.3x57 -62) and was adapted to it's role by using heavy round nose bullets. It's still being used because it has been used traditionally.
The 6.5x55 is a neat little cartridge, pretty good on european boar, roe deer &c, which usually weigh less than 150#, but it's far from being a good big game cartridge.

To the point of heavy european bullets, they have always been developed for terminal ballistic purposes. When external ballistics were an issue, for example in mountainous regions on goats and sheep hunts, fast lightweight bullets were used too. For example the 6.5x68 was developed for this purpose using bullets in the 100gr range.

Sorry for the rant, I know it's neither applicable to the threads topic, the 6.5x55 is perfectly appropriate for the intended use, nor completely to north of 53's post.
That's an interesting perspective. The heavy 6.5 bullets, especially the 160 round nose, which I believe to be the main hunting bullet used for big game in Europe back in the day, has a very good SD and compares favorably to other bigger caliber heavier bullets. I would think the penetration and terminal performance would be excellent even on moose as they aren't known for their extreme toughness anyway. Not saying your wrong but I am just a bit surprised based on the specs of heavy for caliber 6.5 bullets.

Scot E.
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  #52  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

You're right, the heavy 6.5mm bullets are pretty good and get the job done. They are still inferior to 7mm, 8mm and 9.3mm bullets of similar sd and design, though. There were new rifles and cartridges in the classic german calibers and in classic american calibers -.277 and .30 cal- available, they were expensive though, atleast to the people in the countryside, who already owned converted military m96 rifles.
I don't intend to say the 6.5x55 is bad, hell no. I'm building one myself. It's just not the perfect big game cartridge due to it's small caliber. It was adequate for use on moose with heavy bullets at short range, imho it's not adequate for use on game that heavy at extended ranges (as to the purpose of this board). To kill deer sized game (~200lbs?) at 500m max it's perfectly suited though.
I just wanted to take care of the "the 6.5x55 has to be an uber moose killer since the swedes used it for a century and longer"-myth which you read quite frequently in american forums.

By the way, beeing a smart ass already, the 6.5x55 is a scandinavian ordnance cartridge and thus common only in a small part of europe. In germany 7x57 &c were much more common.
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  #53  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:33 PM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beng View Post
You're right, the heavy 6.5mm bullets are pretty good and get the job done. They are still inferior to 7mm, 8mm and 9.3mm bullets of similar sd and design, though. There were new rifles and cartridges in the classic german calibers and in classic american calibers -.277 and .30 cal- available, they were expensive though, atleast to the people in the countryside, who already owned converted military m96 rifles.
I don't intend to say the 6.5x55 is bad, hell no. I'm building one myself. It's just not the perfect big game cartridge due to it's small caliber. It was adequate for use on moose with heavy bullets at short range, imho it's not adequate for use on game that heavy at extended ranges (as to the purpose of this board). To kill deer sized game (~200lbs?) at 500m max it's perfectly suited though.
I just wanted to take care of the "the 6.5x55 has to be an uber moose killer since the swedes used it for a century and longer"-myth which you read quite frequently in american forums.

By the way, beeing a smart ass already, the 6.5x55 is a scandinavian ordnance cartridge and thus common only in a small part of europe. In germany 7x57 &c were much more common.
Gotcha. Nice to have your perspective!

Scot E.
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  #54  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:42 PM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

Glad to be able to contribute something at last.
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  #55  
Old 08-28-2013, 01:27 PM
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

Get a 30-06
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  #56  
Old 08-28-2013, 01:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Re: Custom Rifle - 500 yards max - what cartridge

The .308 with a 155-168 would work great. A 6.5x47 is supposed to get wonderful barrel life also. The 6mmbr is one of my favorites and would probably get my vote. The recoil is very mild and 600 and under I doubt there is a more accurate cartridge. Buy 100 PCs of lapua brass and you can wear out 2 guns before they go. Barrel life is 2500 rds of top accuracy and more like 5000 before it gets above 1/2moa. I wouldn't pick it for elk but deer sized game it will be fine.
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