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Custom action pressure ceiling.

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  #22  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:48 AM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouBoyd View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood Rocky's question . To determine what load and bullet gives what pressure in a wildcat cartridge the computer Program Quickload is quite helpful. To use it however you need to use bullets and powders which are in Quickload's database.
It is relatively easy to enter bullets into QuickLOAD (QL) which aren't in the data base if you have then "in hand" to mesure. Having once found an error, I routinely measure bullets to be sure the QL database is correct.

Powders can be "tuned" a little bit, there is some discussion of how to do that in the user's manual, but frankly one is pretty much stuck with the powder database as is. There are a lot of powders in the database. Some sre better modeled than others. Small cases (hornet for example) tend to have larger errors in MV than cases of .223 size and up. The model of Lil'Gun in QuickLOAD is pretty much useless in Hornet loads, at least compared to results in my CZ527. Other powders seem to do quite well.

I've not had much luck entering wildcat cartridges that aren't in the database but a friend of mine that has QuickDESIGN says that makes it easy.

The publisher of QL comes out with updates now and then that add new powders, cartridges, and bullets to the database.

Fitch
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  #23  
Unread 03-23-2010, 10:24 AM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
It is relatively easy to enter bullets into QuickLOAD (QL) which aren't in the data base if you have then "in hand" to mesure. Having once found an error, I routinely measure bullets to be sure the QL database is correct.

Powders can be "tuned" a little bit, there is some discussion of how to do that in the user's manual, but frankly one is pretty much stuck with the powder database as is. There are a lot of powders in the database. Some sre better modeled than others. Small cases (hornet for example) tend to have larger errors in MV than cases of .223 size and up. The model of Lil'Gun in QuickLOAD is pretty much useless in Hornet loads, at least compared to results in my CZ527. Other powders seem to do quite well.

I've not had much luck entering wildcat cartridges that aren't in the database but a friend of mine that has QuickDESIGN says that makes it easy.

The publisher of QL comes out with updates now and then that add new powders, cartridges, and bullets to the database.

Fitch
Fitch---Yes QD can be exported to QL. Software is expensive but if you like Wildcats it is indispensible.. Is a pain to put all of the data in from the reamer drawing but it is worth it.
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  #24  
Unread 05-14-2010, 11:14 AM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

I have been making 10 posts a day on gun forums for 15 years.
I have been buying hundreds of guns just to overload them as a hobby for 10 years.

I am surprised at the intelligence that went into most of the posts on this thread.
I have been conditioned to expect fear and ignorance on this topic.



As stated by others, the action may be able to take way more pressure than the brass, but if the case head fails, the action may not tolerate the gas cutting.

The above pic is me overloading LC 308 brass in a 98 Mauser 10 years ago without incident.
The handling of gas from the primer pocket is excellent in that design.
But in the last year, I have had 98 Mauser extractors come back out of the action like Shrapnel (3) times.
It is very different when the primer pocket expands, than when the case head comes off.
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  #25  
Unread 05-14-2010, 11:40 AM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark View Post
I have been making 10 posts a day on gun forums for 15 years.
I have been buying hundreds of guns just to overload them as a hobby for 10 years.

I am surprised at the intelligence that went into most of the posts on this thread.
I have been conditioned to expect fear and ignorance on this topic.



As stated by others, the action may be able to take way more pressure than the brass, but if the case head fails, the action may not tolerate the gas cutting.

The above pic is me overloading LC 308 brass in a 98 Mauser 10 years ago without incident.
The handling of gas from the primer pocket is excellent in that design.
But in the last year, I have had 98 Mauser extractors come back out of the action like Shrapnel (3) times.
It is very different when the primer pocket expands, than when the case head comes off.
Wow...

Can you tell us how and why it is that you do all this testing?

Jon
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  #26  
Unread 05-14-2010, 11:46 AM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmden View Post
Can you tell us how and why it is that you do all this testing?
I started out with underground buried guns with trigger strings, behind concrete walls with a trigger string, etc.

Now I look at the gun and see which direction the parts will fly if anything fails.
Then I point that part away from my body.
That means I get below Mausers.
Then I pull the trigger with my finger and shoot into the dirt.

As an old ME prof told us in engineering ethics, if a rocket blows up on the launch pad, you don't learn much.
The trick in overloading guns is to do an incremental work up and inspect the gun and brass after every shot.
Guns that just blow up with a giant overload do not yield much information.

Last edited by Clark; 05-14-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 05-14-2010, 12:45 PM
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Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

Clark,

Sounds like you should be an expert in the effect of failed brass cases on rifle actions by now.

Back when I was in high school a guy I knew there got into reloading for a .243 Winchester. Rifle was a Rem 700 varmint contour barrel if I remember correctly. He was using Lee reloading equipment - the stuff where volumetric powder measuring cups were supposed to be matched to the specific gun powder. Well this guy wasn't the sharpest tack in the world. Before I knew it, he was telling me he was out shooting signs along a railroad track one day and his bullets were leaving blue smoke trails and he wasn't hitting any of the signs. He was having difficulty opening the bolt on fired rounds. Then finally he fired off a round and the bolt just wouldn't open, even when the bolt handle was hit with 2x4" lumber.

He took the rifle to the gunsmith and the gunsmith had to pull the barrel. Gunsmith told him he had welded the bolt to the action. Gunsmith asked how he was loading his ammo, and my bud told him he was simply filling the Lee measuring cups with powders for charging the casings. Who knows which powder he used with these loads. He didn't understand that the Lee cups had to be matched with specific powders. He probably grabbed some fast burning pistol powders and loaded her up. The smith had to replace the bolt. Possibly the entire action had to be replaced. I never got all of the fine details cuz my bud didn't want to talk about it too much. He did learn enough to understand that different gun powders were really different from one another. This guy made for a lot of interesting stories.

Last edited by phorwath; 05-14-2010 at 02:10 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 05-14-2010, 01:02 PM
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Posts: 651
Re: Custom action pressure ceiling.

I am 59 and a guy I hunt with is 60. When he was 14 he started handloading without knowing better than to use pistol powder. That locked up his rifle.

I know an old gunsmith, who more recently put the wrong powder in a 30-06, SR4759, and he says the case head brazed itself to the Mauser bolt face.

Young or old, it fits in the scope of Ackley II 1966 chapter "A few causes of blow ups" pages 23 - 45.

I have not found any causes of blow ups outside of the scope of that writing, just fleshed it out with more details to satisfy my curiosity.
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