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Cronograph's ??

 
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  #43  
Old 03-17-2013, 09:37 PM
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Re: Chronograph's ??

I completely agree that if a guy shoots enough bullets down range at really long ranges and pays strict attention to drops, winds, and direction of fire, that enough shooting time and ammo can lead to a respectable combination of BC and MV back-calculated from measured drops while tweaking input values for MV until the drops match those measured in the field. Other than when I'm specifically developing a long range hunting load for a rifle, I don't average 15 shots per year through my hunting rifles. There are no 1000 yd ranges within 500 miles of where I live. I have to create my own 1000 yd range on a power line easement, because the land is forested.

You mentioned that the BC discrepancy exists no matter how we arrive at a MV, and that's not true for me. I measure bullet velocity at the muzzle and then again at 1000 yards. I use these two bullet velocities to calculate the BC for the bullet out of my rifle. I don't use the BC from the manufacturer or Bryan Litz's published values.

So you use your method because you shoot a lot. Evidently enough to be content that your methods work well enough for you. I rely on my ballistic software because I don't shoot a lot because I don't have opportunity to shoot a lot at long yardages, and basically none at the elevations where I hunt sheep and Mt. goat. About the only time I shoot at elevations exceeding 2200 feet is while I'm hunting sheep, goat, bear, or caribou. Which again goes back to the point that what works well for you is not a practical possibility for me. What I do is a practical possibility for anyone.

Now, even if I were to only establish my MV with a chronograph, at least then I'm only left with the unknown variable of BC when tweaking data in a ballistics program to match measured long yardage drops. On the other hand, you have two unknowns to juggle, leaving it to guesswork as to tweaking the BC or the MV when you're matching measured drops with your ballistics program. You have no way to know which is correct, or if either is correct, because you're left with two unknowns which have been juggled in some fashion to match your measured long range drops. I hear you saying that you consider your BC values to be proven values. Well they were out of someone's rifle if you're using Litz's values. They may or may not be proven BC values out of your rifle.

Last edited by phorwath; 03-17-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-17-2013, 10:07 PM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
And FEENIX, if you don't accept this premise, or care about it, good for you. It is important to me, the way I use my chronographs. You dismissing the significance doesn't negate the facts. Just means it's not important to you, or for whatever other reason, you could care less.
Show me where I ever said I did not care or not important!
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  #45  
Old 03-17-2013, 10:59 PM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Show me where I ever said I did not care or not important!
Where and when you took offense to my statement from a prior Thread, I conclude that you didn't care about the value of the proof channel providing the 2nd recorded velocity, and that you didn't see the value in running two chronographs in tandem in order to obtain the equivalent of a proof channel - which is built into the Oehler 35P.

Here's my statement which sent you into a tissy fit in the original Thred, and currently leads you to proclaim I'm an elitist:
"Anybody posting comments in response to the original poster's question that hasn't used their chronograph in tandem with a proof chronograph for an extended period of time, is basing their opinion on a gut-feeling guess - and nothing more."

And here's how I stated the same thing in this Thread:
?This is the primary reason I say anyone that makes claims about the quality, accuracy, and precision of their chronograph based solely on the singular velocity data their chronograph records, is operating semi-blind, and possibly, without knowing it. And FEENIX, if you don't accept this premise, or care about it, good for you. It is important to me, the way I use my chronographs. You dismissing the significance doesn't negate the facts. Just means it's not important to you, or for whatever other reason, you could care less."

A chronograph owner can't validate the proper operation of a chronograph that provides a single recorded velocity. Which means the owner isn't in an informed position to recommend their chronograph (be it a cheapo or an expensive one) as a winner or a loser. The opinion is a gut-feeling guess - and nothing more. The person is recording and receiving velocity data that could be valid, or invalid. The owner/operator has no way to know. Operating semi-blind.

Since you've taken strong offense at my first bolded statement (above) from a separate Thread, you either don't understand the concept or what's being communicated, you do understand the concept and think it's not important or relevant. You don't care. Or worse...
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  #46  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:41 PM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

There you go assuming again!

OPs on both thread asked the following ...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Duerr View Post
I dont want to spend a lot of $$ ..............What is your experiance with Cronograph's .....are they accurate and consistent, what problems have you had.
It would be nice to know what my exact velocity is.....................

Thanks
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Killer View Post
I am looking for an inexspensive chrono. Who makes a decent one that is $100-$200?
Thanks for the input.
... hoping for an honest answer that meets their budget and level of experience for their intended use. Instead, you try wow everybody else with your I am better than you attitude and insist that your way and set up is the only way.

Get off your high chair and help the OPs like everyone else is trying to do.
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  #47  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:04 AM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

My good buddy FEENIX. You asked and I answered. Getting worked up now? Temper temper, most slowly FEENIX. I showed you when and where. And now absolute silence from you. Instead you're off on another rant from your pulpit, while you claim I sit high on the alter with the elitists of the world.

Now who's the post-watcher, lecturing on the proper content of Posts in response to the OPs questions? My goodness it's the one and only FEENIX, post-watcher supreme. In case you can't remember the significance of post-watcher, back up to post #29 - Author = FEENIX.

Did Greg Duerr solely say he didn't want to spend a lot of money? If that was his sole concern/request/question, you are THE guy for him. But I could have sworn he also asked are they (chronographs by the way - not stop watches) accurate and consistent, what kind of problems have you had? Yeah, by golly. There it is, and very apparent within your last lowly Post. You so worked up that you didn't see the rest of the OP's questions?

Your version of help so far is to pontificate about the lack of merit (from your lowly position - relative to where you've placed me) of another member's Posts. And here's the help you provided in the prior Thread on chronographs where our Posts last crossed. "I turned on a chronograph once. It powered up or at least a light came on. I saw some numbers. It's terrific. I don't know for the life of me if the data are accurate or precise or what not, but wow it's super and just tickles me pink. Really really great. And did I mention it's cheap cheap CHEAP. One heck of a bargain. I know it's a good one, because it's the least expensive one on the market. It's good enough for me. And if it's not good enough for anyone else, then I call them dirty names like assumers. And if I get really upset, I'll call them elitists too. That teaches them a lesson they'll not soon forget."

PS: Marshall FEENXIX. You've overlooked some other members Posting here on anything other than what constitutes the lowest cost chronograph available. It's clear you need a Deputy to assist with patrolling just this Thread, let alone the rest of the Forum. And BTW, you're Posts, especially those with the pictures have been a huge hep for me. In retrospect, I'd like to broadcast what a huge hep you been. Why don't you pull some more rabbits (pictures) out of your hat of tricks and hep us some more. More hep please.
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:17 AM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Show me where I ever said I did not care or not important!
I almost forgot:
Did So!
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:22 AM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX
Show me where I ever said I did not care or not important!
Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
I almost forgot:
Did So!
You've shown nothing ... again get off your high chair but please don't hurt yourself.

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"Leadership Rule #2: Don't be an @zzhole." - Maj Gen Burton Field.
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