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Cronograph's ??

 
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  #15  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

I have long since decided to stay out of the ever continuing chronograph arguments. You all will still be doing thing long after I'm cold and in the ground!

I see guys using just about every brand you can think of at the range from time to time. They all have one thing in common; they are constantly adjusting this and that and trying to simply make them perfect. Most of their problems start out with the mounting systems they use. They pick up a cheap $15 tripod (or worse) and the chronograph moves all over the place as the bullet travels thru it. Any movement is error! Then you watch and wait for the guy setting his whizz bang so & so chronograph up at the range, and he does get it setup fairly quickly. Never levels it to the earth's surface. Never makes sure everything is tight. Then is back out there every five or ten shots tweaking it! It's always the chronograph's fault, when it really is the end users fault (I wanted to use another phrase). Most guys just eyeball the distance from the muzzel to the first cell, and can't figure out why they are not consistent. A couple inches won't matter much, but a couple feet will! They never quite get the bullet path in the center, and that's another major problem. How many of us keep a good log book that enters in the ambiant temperature and true wind and direction. Is the sun very bright or very overcast?

No brand names need be mentioned. But a properly setup chronograph usually works properly. The price usually gives one a few more doodads to further confuse his trane of thought. I personally miss not having a printer, but 90% of the guys I know that have one with a printer either have it go south or toss the data in the trash can setting right behind them. Somebody said he had a chronograph with a USB port!! Now that's a worth while addition that every chrongraph should come with. But being able to use an SD car or a Compact Flash card would be just as good. I couldprobably load all the data on a card from two week's worth of shooting on one 4 megabite card.
gary
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  #16  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:54 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 235
Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
I have long since decided to stay out of the ever continuing chronograph arguments. You all will still be doing thing long after I'm cold and in the ground!

I see guys using just about every brand you can think of at the range from time to time. They all have one thing in common; they are constantly adjusting this and that and trying to simply make them perfect. Most of their problems start out with the mounting systems they use. They pick up a cheap $15 tripod (or worse) and the chronograph moves all over the place as the bullet travels thru it. Any movement is error! Then you watch and wait for the guy setting his whizz bang so & so chronograph up at the range, and he does get it setup fairly quickly. Never levels it to the earth's surface. Never makes sure everything is tight. Then is back out there every five or ten shots tweaking it! It's always the chronograph's fault, when it really is the end users fault (I wanted to use another phrase). Most guys just eyeball the distance from the muzzel to the first cell, and can't figure out why they are not consistent. A couple inches won't matter much, but a couple feet will! They never quite get the bullet path in the center, and that's another major problem. How many of us keep a good log book that enters in the ambiant temperature and true wind and direction. Is the sun very bright or very overcast?

No brand names need be mentioned. But a properly setup chronograph usually works properly. The price usually gives one a few more doodads to further confuse his trane of thought. I personally miss not having a printer, but 90% of the guys I know that have one with a printer either have it go south or toss the data in the trash can setting right behind them. Somebody said he had a chronograph with a USB port!! Now that's a worth while addition that every chrongraph should come with. But being able to use an SD car or a Compact Flash card would be just as good. I couldprobably load all the data on a card from two week's worth of shooting on one 4 megabite card.
gary
All very good reasons why I switched to a magnetospeed recently. Very hard to setup incorrectly, doesn't care if it is sunny or dark, don't have to go down the range to set it up, no tripod needed, measures at the muzzle, keeps all my string data on the SD card which I can open in excel and well its just awesome.
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  #17  
Old 03-16-2013, 04:36 PM
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinodods View Post
All very good reasons why I switched to a magnetospeed recently. Very hard to setup incorrectly, doesn't care if it is sunny or dark, don't have to go down the range to set it up, no tripod needed, measures at the muzzle, keeps all my string data on the SD card which I can open in excel and well its just awesome.
one small problem with the setup (and I mean very small) is that the data can't actually be compaired with the book data due to the distance from the muzzel. But that dosn't make it inaccurate, but just slightly different. The one serious advantage it has is that the setup is virtually the same everytime it's used; which is better than any of the others. I also think clamping anything out on the end of the barrel is going to have an effect on the shot string in placement and group size. How much is debatable.
gary
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  #18  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maple Valley, Washington
Posts: 456
Re: Cronograph's ??

There are 3 chronos I would consider owning. Ohler 35, CED Millenium II and CE ProChrono Digital – the best value by far being the last one though the IR sky screens that are optional for the CED Millenium II are nice if you like to keep shooting as it is getting dark. I don’t like anything hanging on the gun barrel as the added weight will shift point of impact and “tune” accuracy to make it better or worse.

My best chrono trick - use a boresite laser to align it. Point your rifle at the target and insert a boresite laser. Put clear plastic targets in each sky screen that are marked with a grid. When the laser hits the grid in both screens in the same place it is aligned. Do this and it will be aligned in both the pitch and yaw axis and will read as accurate as it can. Don’t do this and it usually will be misaligned which will cause it to read low in proportion to the misalignment. Also, measure the distance from muzzle to the center of the chrono. I always put mine at 4 yards. After shooting, correct velocities back to the muzzle using bullet BC and you ballistics program.
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  #19  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:57 PM
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Posts: 838
Re: Cronograph's ??

I would have to concede that 90% of the erroneous results of chronograph use are user related and not mechanical.
I have always tried to be technically proper in my set ups and go threw all the motions and still had trouble off and on. Hence my overall opinion.
Just for the record: The reason I often find myself on the flip side of this debate is that all my discrepancies ceased to exist when I quit using my chronograph. Not just cheaper or faster but actually better more reliable data resulted from measuring gravitational drop from a 100 yrd zero to a 20moa hold needed to connect at 870yrds. After using that known trajectory to establish my velocities instead of my chrono I no longer needed to cheat my own numbers, no longer needed to fudge to get the calculators to align with the reality. I tested my loads for accuracy at those ranges with the same rounds. Saving time and barrel life.
The barrel mounted models may offer more consistency in speed tracking but would in all likely hood eliminate the ability to fine tune a load at the same time.
My method of measuring drops lets me, fine tune a load, check long range accuracy, verify drops and establish my velocity all at once without buying anything extra or messing with set up.
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:10 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Great Falls, MT
Posts: 4,603
Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
FEENIX confirms his chronograph is accurate using a hand-held stop watch, and what's good enough for him is good enough for the rest of the world. No humor attempted. Ooops... I'm so sorry FEENIX. Here's your humor...
Typical elitist ... not sorry at all!

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Last edited by FEENIX; 03-16-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:08 PM
BMF BMF is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Near Fowler/St Johns...Michigan
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Re: Cronograph's ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.ID View Post
I would have to concede that 90% of the erroneous results of chronograph use are user related and not mechanical.
I have always tried to be technically proper in my set ups and go threw all the motions and still had trouble off and on. Hence my overall opinion.
Just for the record: The reason I often find myself on the flip side of this debate is that all my discrepancies ceased to exist when I quit using my chronograph. Not just cheaper or faster but actually better more reliable data resulted from measuring gravitational drop from a 100 yrd zero to a 20moa hold needed to connect at 870yrds. After using that known trajectory to establish my velocities instead of my chrono I no longer needed to cheat my own numbers, no longer needed to fudge to get the calculators to align with the reality. I tested my loads for accuracy at those ranges with the same rounds. Saving time and barrel life.
The barrel mounted models may offer more consistency in speed tracking but would in all likely hood eliminate the ability to fine tune a load at the same time.
My method of measuring drops lets me, fine tune a load, check long range accuracy, verify drops and establish my velocity all at once without buying anything extra or messing with set up.
I agree with this stand.....mostly. I say that because a chrono can eliminate waisted rounds. At 100 or 200 yds a load may be extremely accurate but may have a 30,50, or even 70 fps ES. You won't find that out until you start shooting past 500~ yds. Then you have to go back to 200yds with a new load and start again. For me, that's where my chrono saves me time and rounds. I have an Oehler 35 and from what I can tell, it's pretty darn accurate. Therefore I don't even shoot a particular load long range until I achieve a desired E.S.

I still do the same thing D.ID does, and back check every load at particular distances to verify that it drops what it's supposed too. So far, no number (fps) tweaking. A chrono is a fun tool, not necessary, but fun when they work. Like I said before though, I agree with D.ID, and there's nothin more accurate than actual gravity bullet drops to determin velocity.........assuming the B.C. is correct.
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