I don't clean for copper after barrel break in. Once broken in, I only use M Pro 7.
Kelly McMillan told me to never clean for copper unless it is excessive.
Todd Hodnett has said he never cleans for copper either. He took a 1/4 MOA gun and cleaned all the copper fouling. It turned into a 2 1/2 MOA gun. 45 shots later.....it settled back into a 1/4 MOA gun with no copper cleaning. It's in the Magpul video.
Ok, good to know. Thanks.
So do you guys clean with nitro-solvent between groups or just after a day of shooting?
I went to the range yesterday and brought my 270 with pac-nor barrel. The barrel has been broken in properly and has about 50 rounds through it. I noticed at the range that after cleaning the copper out, my accuracy is not as good for a few shots. After about three shots the group shrinks up to about 3/4" (100 yards). Right after cleaning, the groups are about 1.5".
How long can i go without removing fouling?
Barrels have personalities as different as people. Many shoot better with a little copper in the bore. Very few group well until there is a bit of fouling.
I have had bad luck with the one and only PacNor pre-fit to a Savage action 6.5-294 I bought. Accuracy very poor after 312 rounds and various loads. They examined it and said nothing wrong. No more PacNors for me. You never see them mentioned in NRA benchrest equipment matches. There is a reason.
There is nothing about copper in a barrel the 'helps' accuracy.
Stable fouling does, finally burning out a cleaning oil does, but when copper builds accuracy eventually step changes from it.
That 'eventually' depends on YOUR system.
This thread presents the first I've ever heard in someone claiming copper fouling was good for accuracy. I've never seen that, and I've never seen such a claim before.
That is why one should get to know his or her rifle. All barrels are different, some need cleaned more often than others. Some you get what you pay for.
The crown can be damaged as well during cleaning if not done properly, and that for sure mess up accuracy. I have seen some right off the shelf due to mishandling.
I don't know how long any of my rifles will go before accuracy falls off from fouling, but I will typically clean between 50 and 100 rounds, it depends though on how long I expect it to sit before it's next trip out or if I'm testing new loads. When I clean I want it clean! I never ever store a firearm with copper fouling in the barrel, moisture can get under the copper and there is nothing good about that. Clean it to bare metal, coat with Montana extreme accuracy oil and set it in the safe, run 2 dry patches through before you go shoot again.
Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.
Some of you may know that Mickey Coleman is a highly respected gunsmith and benchrest shooter in South Carolina. Here are some interesting comments he wrote a while back on this subject:
"Copper removal by Mickey Coleman
Seldom will competitors shoot 20 rounds without cleaning. If, however, you're at war then more shots between cleaning is expected but try cleaning more often.
Here is an easy method to get rid of copper but most people get faint when they hear it. Run two wet patches through the bore then take a brush and wrap a few wisps of 0000 steel wool around the brush starting at the handle end of the brush and wrapping toward the tip. Load the brush and steel wool with J-B Bore Paste and make ten complete passes followed by two wet patches then two dry patches.
I promise you that in almost all cases the copper will be gone and it will NOT harm the bore. Lest you think that it will ask yourself how often have you cleaned case necks with steel wool and how many case necks have you ruined by doing it. Is brass harder than barrel steel? "