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Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

 
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  #99  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:37 AM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Well you know the important part, it kills elk
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #100  
Old 10-23-2012, 04:43 AM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Congrats again, and thanks for the detailed photo's of the damage done by the bullet and the elk.
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  #101  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:05 AM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Well, I got a little more data from these bullets. In the beginning I was under the impression they would not expand well due to the thicker jackets. I no longer feel that way at all. In fact it seems to me they expand more. Today I stuck one in a Bull Elk at 636 yards. Behind the shoulder and catching a rib going in. The bull ws dispatched very quickly and took maybe two 2 steps. The entrance hole was like all the others (.308) but after passing through the hide, about an inch side meat, then getting the rib going in it was really expanded. Although it destroyed the lungs and heart it didnt exit. I spent some time looking through the mountain of damaged entrals but didn't recover the bullet. Might have run out with the 30 gallons of strawberry jello. I don't know?? But I did take pics of the entrance, outside and inside, and the lungs and heart. So, I guess at 636 yards, with an impact velocity of 2341 and 2616 ft lbs of energy the expansion is more than I desire in a perfect world. But no two shots are ever the same. The next could produce an exit. I will not degrade the bullet as it killed the elk like lightning. But I am beginning to think this bullet is better siuted for longer shots where it would expand less. We have all said it before, no bullet is perfect in all areas. Some are better up close. Some for longer distances. I am a long range hunter, so I feel this bullet will work for me. But, draw your own conclusions. Here are the pics.

Placement:




Entrance outside:




Entrance inside:




Lungs:



Heart:



Hero pic:

Congrats on a really nice bull Jeff! It can't be an elk though because there is no brush up to your eyeballs ...........Rich
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  #102  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:02 AM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Great lookin bull Jeff and nice shot as usual. Like you said each shot is different so don't over think this one to much. It's going to take a lot of feedback to draw a substantial conclusion. Somebody in this thread mentioned a one shot drop on a bear at 90 yds. with good results. I just had a client tell me he would not ever use accubonds on an elk ever again because a couple of petals broke off on the bullet recovered from his bull. It was still pretty heavy in my hand and had hit bone and recovered in the offside shoulder. I didn't think it was bad results but I think he thinks they should always come out looking perfect. In the real world mornings perfect. My point is along the way there will be guys who try this bullet and for some reason they won't be happy with it and a new topic will get started about how terrible the 215's are. I'm not suggesting these bullets won't fail somebody at sometime but rather just want people to keep an open mind and draw their own conclusions. Sorry for the rant and again great bull Jeff!!!
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  #103  
Old 10-23-2012, 12:24 PM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Congrats ,great Bull
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  #104  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:43 PM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

i found the picture of the exit on the bear that i posted about. this was a 90 ish yard shot and dropped right away.

good to see other people having success with the 215 grainers
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Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid-bear.jpg  
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  #105  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:47 PM
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re: Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Ok, More terminal data for the 215 Bergers. Today I was hunting with a friend and he was using my 300 win with 215 Berger Hybrids to fill his bull tag. We crawled in thick fog to get to the herd. He was ready to fill his tag as he only has a few more days to hunt. He picked this bull and I ranged it and dialed the scope. It was at 200 yards and pretty much broadside. I told him to shoot for the crease behind the shoulder 1/2 way up the bull. He did an EXCELLENT job with the placement. Here are the results on bull #2 with the 215 Berger Hybrid.

Impac velocity= 2817 fps
Energy = 3790 ft Lbs ( Holy Crap!!)
Penetration = 15"+ ( not sure how far they bullet went into the far shoulder
but we hope to find this out tomorrow.)


Upon inpact I watched the hide ripple about a foot around the impact point. The bull turned 180* and stood there all hunched up with his back arched. I told my friend to chamber another round and get back on him. Within a couple seconds the bull was wobbling at the rear and it was becoming hard for him to stad up. Then his rear dropped and he rolled a few times and slid about 50 yards down the steep grassy hill. He was done and never kicked once after he fell.

Here are the photos:

What we found walking up showing where he slid down the hill. Notice there are no kick marks. He was dead when he hit the ground.





Shot placement. Perfect centered for height and right in the crease behind the shoulder.




Close up of Entrance hole at 200 yards. .308" size again.



Etrance hole between ribs from the inside of the chest cavity.




Exit hole from inside chest cavity between ribs. Note a few fragment holes also but a large remaining piece of the bullet exited the broiler room.




Chest cavity pic showing both the entrance and exit.




Destroyed vitals. Lungs had a huge wound channel and and top of heart had a huge hole as well. Note, the hole in the heart actually has chunks of lung drug into it.




My buddy with his bull. He did an excellent job on the trigger. He worked fast in poor conditions and placement was spot on for a quick one shot kill.




Some thoughts I have this evening. I am not trying to sell this bullet to anyone, or any Berger for that matter. Draw your own conclusions for what you choose to use. But darn, they sure kill fast and quickly for me, and at many different distances. As you can see for yourself my posts are real and as informative as I can be. Something to think about, if you are having problems with any bullet. Are you doing all you can to place them where they need to go? Just a thought?

Comparing the results from this bull and the one I took with the 215 Berger:
Mine got a rib dead center going in and expanded more, thus penetration was less. I feel any bullet would do this same thing as well. This one missed ribs going in and exiting. But pentration was awesome in my book. It was a huge surprise for me when I seen it made it out of the chest cavity. This was a relatively close shot with pretty high velocity. So I was very pleased with the exit and the quick kill. Meat damage was very minimal. I feel the loss will be low.

I believe the bullet is still in the far shoulder. We are taking this bull to the processor in the morning. If I can get them to do it for me we will look for the bullet. But this will greatly depend on their work load at the time. If I get it I will post pics.

My testing is not conclusive yet. But my confidence in the 215 Berger is growing with each DRT shot. There will be more this season so stand by.


Jeff
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