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Case Runout

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Old 10-23-2003, 10:44 AM
MAX MAX is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 263
Re: Case Runout

Brent, sorry to see you've gotten lost in the insanity of run out [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] . Keep pluggin' away... I do a lot of things these days with die set up that are different than before I purchased the Casemaster. One is that I generally have better success with loose than tight, letting dies find a natural center. If I use an expander ball at all it is on the down stroke, as a separate step. Another is I ditched a lot of RCBS dies, but not all. A cockeyed chamber is...there is no word for that, sorry.

Try this for giggles: Next time out take your indexed loads and fire three groups of 3-5 rounds, w/ the index mark at 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock, then 3 o'clock. If you see no difference I'd guess your chamber cut is having little influence. When I do this with R.O. above .003", I generally see 3 distinct groups on the paper, even at 100 yds. Luck to you.
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Old 10-24-2003, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 141
Re: Case Runout

Hi guys,

This involves a little work at first but great results in the end.

I have my 1000 yd LG match rifle chambered in 300 wm. My run out on the bullets were about .007/.010 way to much.

After weighing my cases, cleaning up primer pockets and flash holes. I F/L size in my RCBS die. Then with my Forester lathe I inside neck ream. Then run it through my K & M expander plug, then turn my necks to 12 1/2 thous. I then run the cases back through my Redding F/L bushing die with a 331 bushing.

Now my run out is less then .001. A lot of work but at 1000 yds, it all makes a difference. I know theirs guys out there that don't weigh cases or trim primer pocket, flash holes or turn necks. Then at the matches shoot single diget targets, but how much smaller would they be if they had removed all the variables from the cases.

One of the most important variables we have not been able to control, I feel is how tight we seat each bullet. I see now K & M has a new arbor press with a dial indicator on it to do just that! With the use of a Wilson straight line bullet seater we can now gauge how much tension it take to seat each and every round loaded.

I have been bitching about this last variable for ten years now, I guess it's time to shut up and same some money for this new tool!

Good luck, Vern
The only thing a hand gun is good for is fighting your way to a good rifle!
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Old 10-24-2003, 02:53 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: Case Runout

I've got my RO problems handled thus far, took some work but now I'm down to .000" - .002" at most on the Ultra. The nice chamber in the new 30-338 LI is staying under .001" no problem, but those are neck turned and reamed with the K&M and the inside cutter mandrel so I'd expect better numers anyway.

The Ultra's were neck turned on the Forrester and it just doesn't do as good of job as far as consistancy in thickness goes. I had to loosen the collet and let it float a bit to keep from torquing the neck on the mandrel to one side so I didn't end up with one side cut thinner than the rest. Seemed to work much better but I wanted to keep the variation less than .0005-.001" so I got the K&M. Now we're really talking consistancy... under .0002" no matter where you check it. It also cuts a LOT nicer too. Doughnut removed and neck turned all in one operation as well.


I'll have to try indexing RO at a few places and see if it steers the groups around.

Whistle pig,

I'll be testing a product in a few days for measuring seating force in PSI, it will be released not too long afterward, soon as they know it's working as expected. It has a digital readout and uses a sensor under the shellholder, can't say muck more than that yet, not sure they want the specifics out on it quite yet. Should be a great tool, I know I could use it about now! I will say that it won't wear out, reads more accurately and has higher resolution than the competetors does, but will cost a bit more... I think. I talked with Ken at K&M about an electronic pressure sensor type measurment system a couple months ago and he said the cost of making them would be steeper so he didn't want to go that route when he did his. Ken knows his electronics too.

The guys developing this and some other very awesome things are intent on leading the precision shooting and reloading crew to new levels, all at a price the average shooter can also afford, which is the criteria. Stay tuned...

A new style chronograph is in development as well, not relying on "light". Consistancy and accuracy with this design, as well as the price tag will get everyones attention. It might be a little while if it all works out as expected, but I think it's coming too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Brent Moffitt
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:39 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 141
Re: Case Runout

Hi Brent,

That new tool sounds good. If you really think about it seating tension is the last variable we can't control. As far as reloading.

I was at Clay Spencers the other day and he has been working on an electronic gauge also but, he pointed out that both the electronic and the dial indicator type tools need some sort of mechanical stop.

I have been buying tools from Ken at K & M for many, many years, I think I have everyone of his except the new Force Measurement tool. Saving my pennies now [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

We always talk about "feel" in regards to reloading but as Ken points out, it's impossible get it through just feeling hand pressure. Primer seating is another case.

Keep us updated if you would on the new tool, Brent.

Good luck, Vern
The only thing a hand gun is good for is fighting your way to a good rifle!
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