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Case length reduction upon fire forming Improved cartridges?

 
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  #8  
Old 03-17-2003, 09:17 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
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Re: Case length reduction upon fire forming Improved cartridges?

Steve, thank you very much. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] You addressed and layed all my concerns to rest. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] I'll speak with Dave Kiff tomarrow.

Your opinion is always highly reguarded, come on Steve your way too humble. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Did you change any components for competition this year on the Yogi?

By the way, what's your thoughts on the split and clamped style barrel blocks verses the glued on type?

Dave, my smith says he agrees with Bruce Baer and likes the glued on ones. I figured you might have some insight here too. If there's an advantage to one over the other in some way, I figured your attention to detail wouldn't let this slip by either. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks again for your help. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:02 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 352
Re: Case length reduction upon fire forming Improved cartridges?

Brent,
I did/didn't change for the Yogi. Still the same load and components, just spent more time in preparing the case necks and sorting bullets. Working really hard on neck tension consistancy right now.

With my LG I messed up somehow and my neck tension wasn't even 1/2 of what it normally should have been and the target showed. The necks of the fired cases blackened up the entire neck. Woody doesn't shoot as good when that happens. But when the neck tension is right I only get a small ring of carbon around the front of the neck. That's when all of my small groups have been shot with this rifle.
Just a small observation I've noticed. I wish all rifles were that predictable.

By the way, what's your thoughts on the split and clamped style barrel blocks verses the glued on type?
I've used them all. When done right they all work. The disadvantages is the time making them and bedding them in. If you are using an action mounted scope that doesn't hang off from the block the split style is fine and really handy for a switch barrel setup and keeping your zero because the clamping screws are normally right on top. The disadvantage is increased scope height to get the front objective to clear the block.
If you are planning on using a block mounted scope and clamp style block there are a few considerations. You must use guide pins to make sure the top part of the block sets perpendicular on top of the barrel and you need to take care in tighting down the screws in a prescribed bolt pattern. A lot like torquing down head bolts in a engine.... starting from the inside bolts and work out in a clockwise rotation, slowly clamping the bolts a little more each time until fully torgued. If you don't do this the top half of a clamped block can tilt to one side and cause problems with horizontal shifts when making vertical adjustments in your scope. When done right you can repeat your zero pretty darn good.
One other thing different about blocks in general over a glued sleeve is that the block can be used to tune a barrel into a load to where to can't with a glued sleeve. But that can be a disadvantage also because with a severe change in temperature the torgue/clamping PSI would change in a block. But not in a glued sleeve.
The glued sleeve's majic is done when the rifle is built and you never have to mess with it again. The glued sleeve leaves no stress what-so-ever in the barrel.
I've been told by more than 1 gunsmith that you can measure a bore diameter change with an air-gauge when a block is fully torgued down. This is a VERY VERY small minute change but it is there. But let me also add that I've never seen anyone report excessive fouling or any adverse affects of this either. Just be aware there is stress in there. And when you have stress and large temperature changes the expansion and contraction of materials can cause changes.

Dave, my smith says he agrees with Bruce Baer and likes the glued on ones. I figured you might have some insight here too. If there's an advantage to one over the other in some way, I figured your attention to detail wouldn't let this slip by either.
Obviously Bruce has a lot of experience with glued sleeves and his track record of winning guns in competition speaks for itself. For a hunting gun and considering your geographic location (possibily of extreme temp changes) I think I would personally go with a glued sleeve so you don't get the fluctuation in torgue on the barrel. And also becasue you don't have to make room for clamping screws the overall profile and weight of a glued sleeve is going to be smaller and lighter. This with allow for a lower mounted scope so your face can stay on the stock and take recoil better. Don't need to be giving the wife black-eyes right? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] The disadvantage is when changing the barrel after it's shot-out or if you plan on a switch barrel concept. Then a glued sleeve is a pain in the back side as compared to a blcok setup. But if your smith has a good sturdy hydraulic press, put the heat to the glued sleeve and press it off. It will snap when it breaks the glue's hold but you be able to use the sleeve over again with a little touch up work.

Hope this helps,
Steve

[ 03-18-2003: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2003, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
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Re: Case length reduction upon fire forming Improved cartridges?

Steve,

Thanks! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
The block I'll use is one of Jay McMunn's creations, well I'm getting a blank from him that has the hole in it already. Dave will mill the rest the same as Jays. The one of Jays has a slot in the bottom center and clamps before it's installed. I'll post a pic. The delema was that we could glue it in and save a little machine work, or finnish it up just like Jays. If one was an obvious advantage in the accuracy department I wanted to know "first" and by just how much. I was actually considering not using one at all and just bedding the barrel channel up a few inches but completely decided against the idea for bedding longevity reasons. Jay offered me a block reasonably so I couldn't see not using it.

I'm fond of the switch barrel idea so I know I'd be giving that option up if I had it glued in, but I see the advantage to the glue now! Decissions, decissions!!! You did help me see the differences, and that's what I really wanted to know. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]



[ 03-18-2003: Message edited by: Brent ]
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