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caliber choice choice with reasoning

 
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2012, 06:40 PM
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Re: caliber choice choice with reasoning

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Originally Posted by HARPERC View Post
Could be because many of the larger cases were overhyped from the start. Factors like barrel length, actual case capacity with a bullet seated play into it. It's not too difficult to find loading manuals where looking at only top velocity the 300 H&H may come out ahead. Mild factory loadings can make the difference seem larger than it is. When loaded to similar pressures it takes a fair amount of capacity to equate into a meaningful change.
The 300 h&h and 300 wsm have the same useable case capacity. Handloader mag did a write-up on the two years ago( by Sisk??) with a barrel chambered in 300 h&h then cut down and re-chambered in 300 wsm leaving the throat the same, and both were essentially the same pressure and accuracy wise. Don't cut on the 300 h&h; you have a re-designed one. They are both good for their purpose, but they aren't a 300 win long or 300 rum.
Don't get me wrong I like them all, but I do use my 300 win in a standard length action, it it'll still do 200 fps above factories for either of the win cals. You have to cheat the action length for extra boiler room on the 300 wsm; it's apples and oranges.
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: caliber choice choice with reasoning

Absolutely agree 300 H&H, and 330WSM ballistic twins, take nostalgia out and likely 300 WinMag would be my pick as well.

Last edited by HARPERC; 09-26-2012 at 08:38 PM. Reason: missed word
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  #17  
Old 09-27-2012, 12:25 AM
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Re: caliber choice choice with reasoning

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Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
Don't get me wrong I like them all, but I do use my 300 win in a standard length action, it it'll still do 200 fps above factories for either of the win cals. You have to cheat the action length for extra boiler room on the 300 wsm; it's apples and oranges.
Try googling Nosler Reloading Data. It's not your data, or my data, but it gives a non partial comparison to the cartridges with the loads listed from a company recognized for its integrity. Not your opinion vs my opinion vs ? opinion etc. that way.
Granted, I only looked at 180's & 200's, but the WSM beat the WinMag in both categories. Strange thing was, theirs wasn't built on a long action either..... Hmmmmm: im just not seeing any advantage whatsoever, let alone some mystical 200fps. sorry man. They're basically twins, & the edge goes to the WSM till you get to, or above 200gr bullets, where the WinMag starts to take over the lead due to case capacity alone.

Hey Edd, Nosler must've been issued the same magic wand we all got too. Wow

My Hornady manual puts them tied with more loads at the same speeds for the WSM till you get to 220gr bullets. Then the WinMag gets a 50 fps advantage over the WSM. Dang that magic wand went to Hornady too! But sadly, the mystical 200 fps never bothered to show up in favor of the WinMag.

Ok, enough being a smart *****.

Lefty, I don't doubt your personal load data. Ive read quite a few of your posts, & i find you to be an honest member here with a good deal of knowledge. i respect that. Your also correct in assuming that I built my long action WSM the way I did to maximize its potential. However, Nosler, & Hornady didn't.
I know my personal load data to be true, so, These were just 2 examples of printed data from reputable company's in the business for a non bias view.

They're basically twins with the bullets i shoot, with the slight edge (very slight) going in favor of the WSM with those bullets, & less powder consumption. Plain & simple. Since I don't shoot Bergers I have no reason to want or need any more case capacity in a 30 cal. I'd rather just step up to a 338 than try and make my 300 into something it's not.
I still love the 300WinMag. I still plan on building one someday. But it's still basically a ballistic twin to my 300WSM that I already have.

The comparison of apples to oranges is one person talking bullets over 200 grains, & another person talking bullets up to 200gr. Even then it's a 50 fps difference with a 220 gr. in the Hornady load book. That's no where near 200 fps.
In fact, If that 50 fps is such an advantage, does that mean the WSM "blows the doors off" of the WinMag with the lighter 180's & 200's?
I doubt it. Realistically, they're so close ballistically that either can be loaded to have the upper hand untill you start launching super heavy for cal bullets. & like I said, at that point I'd rather just step up in caliber.
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Last edited by winmag; 09-27-2012 at 12:55 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:23 AM
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Re: caliber choice choice with reasoning

The old manuals found much the same. I can't recall the number, but it was a Speer manual back in the late 60's early 70's that first piqued my interest in the 300 H&H when they posted better velocities than the 300 Weatherby. My first chronograph established 2900+ fps using 200 grain bullets isn't due to new components. The Handloader comparison was good as it tried to make as apples to apples as possible. In 26" barrels differences in brass may be the deciding factor. In longer barrels with heavier bullets case capacity may pay off more visibly, I can't say I don't have experience with those.
I would lean away these days from the 300 H&H, brass got scarce then Nosler wants more $$$$ for 25 than 50 of the 300 RUM. Have not bought any lately that may have changed. My choice of the 300 Win is based on component availability, due to world wide acceptance.
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  #19  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:51 AM
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Re: caliber choice choice with reasoning

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Originally Posted by winmag View Post
Try googling Nosler Reloading Data. It's not your data, or my data, but it gives a non partial comparison to the cartridges with the loads listed from a company recognized for its integrity. Not your opinion vs my opinion vs ? opinion etc. that way.
Granted, I only looked at 180's & 200's, but the WSM beat the WinMag in both categories. Strange thing was, theirs wasn't built on a long action either..... Hmmmmm: im just not seeing any advantage whatsoever, let alone some mystical 200fps. sorry man. They're basically twins, & the edge goes to the WSM till you get to, or above 200gr bullets, where the WinMag starts to take over the lead due to case capacity alone.

Hey Edd, Nosler must've been issued the same magic wand we all got too. Wow

My Hornady manual puts them tied with more loads at the same speeds for the WSM till you get to 220gr bullets. Then the WinMag gets a 50 fps advantage over the WSM. Dang that magic wand went to Hornady too! But sadly, the mystical 200 fps never bothered to show up in favor of the WinMag.

Ok, enough being a smart *****.

Lefty, I don't doubt your personal load data. Ive read quite a few of your posts, & i find you to be an honest member here with a good deal of knowledge. i respect that. Your also correct in assuming that I built my long action WSM the way I did to maximize its potential. However, Nosler, & Hornady didn't.
I know my personal load data to be true, so, These were just 2 examples of printed data from reputable company's in the business for a non bias view.

They're basically twins with the bullets i shoot, with the slight edge (very slight) going in favor of the WSM with those bullets, & less powder consumption. Plain & simple. Since I don't shoot Bergers I have no reason to want or need any more case capacity in a 30 cal. I'd rather just step up to a 338 than try and make my 300 into something it's not.
I still love the 300WinMag. I still plan on building one someday. But it's still basically a ballistic twin to my 300WSM that I already have.

.
I've worked with the 300 wsm also, and frankly the win coyote in 300 wsm my dad had wasn't any better than a 30-06 improved in its actual velocities with usable loads. It was also terribly innacurate when wound out. I realize this is only one rifle in 300 wsm, but when someone trades in a couple of nice, totally functional win long mags( a browning 338 and a rem in 300 win) for a 270 wsm and 300 wsm and both fizzle out, it really leaves a crappy taste in your mouth. He tried all bullet weights and powders we had-- quite a few choices since my dad, broither, and I all shoot 30 cal. I know the win factory in new haven was using mostly bin parts towards the end, but these two crappy rifles were still pretty inexcusable.

He is still using the 300 wsm in a stryker pistol, and I shoot the 25wssm, so we haven't given up short mags completely, but I'll not be betting big on them either.

P.S. nosler is rather full of it on attained velocities with some cals.; my 7rem can't hit within 200 fps of what they say on their charges. This is the thrid 7rem of mine that won't make their speeds. For some reason, they are spot on with my 300 rum though. A mid-load of rl25 on a 180 is right below 3300 fps, and that's what I get. 220 -225 grain loads are a different story with the rum, as you pretty much have to start at rock bottom and go up.

Last edited by Lefty7mmstw; 09-27-2012 at 06:59 AM. Reason: nosler comment..
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