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BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

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  #8  
Unread 04-05-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrindlh View Post
Rich,
Is there a way that we can purchase some of your sherman xr bullets??

Darrin
Thanks for your response Darrin! I've been asked that a lot lately and believe me, making bullets, testing, shooting and the rewards of reaping the harvest in hunting are all passions of mine and I would love to share that with others. Having said that, I also have to make a living and I don't know if turning a pleasurable hobby into a job is what I want to do. I haven't ruled it out because it would be great to see others use my bullets and enjoy them as I do. Right now I make a few for family mostly. If I did sell them, they wouldn't be cheap! It's quite labor intensive and even the materials are expensive for the way I make them. I'm not sure I could make it worthwhile for $2/bullet? We'll see what the future brings? Thanks again............Rich
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  #9  
Unread 04-05-2010, 03:09 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

Very interesting article Bob. As far as practical application goes, it backs up what many of us have observed in the field. The trick is to get the right characteristics incorporated into the bullet for the specific use (I like to call it the window) in which the bullet will perform its job on a given animal. Thats why I've always said that there is no perfect bullet for every hunting situation. One thing that stood out was what many of us refer to as hydrostatic shock. This was THE major factor in FAST incapacitation and was a function of the amount of energy released in a short amount of time (providing it took place within the chest cavity. i.e. sufficient penetration before expansion. This is why i personally argue that a bullet should release all or most of it's energy inside the animal. Some would argue that it doesn't leave as good a blood trail, which is true, and others would argue that you don't need a blood trail if the animal drops where it stood. In the steep country that i hunt in, I LIKE THAT. In a perfect world, I like my bullets to have just enough oomph to exit the opposite side. Try to do that everytime I'm going to put a plug in for Bergers here as I believe that is why they often have dramatic knock down power (under the right circumstances). With the very small meplate and vld design, they often penetrate a few inches and then violently explode (hydrostatic shock). Again, you have that window: Too much velocity on a larger animal and you may not get enough penetration. Not enough velocity and they may penetrate very well but never expand. I have seen this in testing and on animals! Thats why, contrary to what some may think, a shoulder shot with a berger makes more sense at longer ranges and a rib shot at closer ones. I have proven in penetration tests over and over with several brands of bullets including my own that an unexpanded bullet at 1500' velocity will out penetrate an expanded bullet of the same make at 3000' every time! Not rocket science, just physics This article also gave some kudos to the ancient Nosler partition which was (and is) a very good killer in my opinion. I have made some partitions of my own and my next project just might be a bonded partition in a rebated boat tail VLD design and one of my ballistic tips. The 190's would be about .7 B.C. They would expand at very long range and would hold together close up. Stay tuned!.......Rich
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  #10  
Unread 04-05-2010, 03:14 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

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Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
Very interesting article Bob. As far as practical application goes, it backs up what many of us have observed in the field. The trick is to get the right characteristics incorporated into the bullet for the specific use (I like to call it the window) in which the bullet will perform its job on a given animal. Thats why I've always said that there is no perfect bullet for every hunting situation. One thing that stood out was what many of us refer to as hydrostatic shock. This was THE major factor in FAST incapacitation and was a function of the amount of energy released in a short amount of time (providing it took place within the chest cavity. i.e. sufficient penetration before expansion. This is why i personally argue that a bullet should release all or most of it's energy inside the animal. Some would argue that it doesn't leave as good a blood trail, which is true, and others would argue that you don't need a blood trail if the animal drops where it stood. In the steep country that i hunt in, I LIKE THAT. In a perfect world, I like my bullets to have just enough oomph to exit the opposite side. Try to do that everytime I'm going to put a plug in for Bergers here as I believe that is why they often have dramatic knock down power (under the right circumstances). With the very small meplate and vld design, they often penetrate a few inches and then violently explode (hydrostatic shock). Again, you have that window: Too much velocity on a larger animal and you may not get enough penetration. Not enough velocity and they may penetrate very well but never expand. I have seen this in testing and on animals! Thats why, contrary to what some may think, a shoulder shot with a berger makes more sense at longer ranges and a rib shot at closer ones. I have proven in penetration tests over and over with several brands of bullets including my own that an unexpanded bullet at 1500' velocity will out penetrate an expanded bullet of the same make at 3000' every time! Not rocket science, just physics This article also gave some kudos to the ancient Nosler partition which was (and is) a very good killer in my opinion. I have made some partitions of my own and my next project just might be a bonded partition in a rebated boat tail VLD design and one of my ballistic tips. The 190's would be about .7 B.C. They would expand at very long range and would hold together close up. Stay tuned!.......Rich
Actually, the Bergers have a small meplat, not plate
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  #11  
Unread 04-06-2010, 05:05 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

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Originally Posted by royinidaho View Post
Rich,

When I posted results of a similar bullet test people jumped all over my case regarding reduced spin rate at the reduced velocity.

I took a bit of an issue with those comments as I don't think it makes "that much" difference though it must make some difference.

I was also told that a bullet stops spinning after some amount of penetration. After watching several slow motion videos of bullets through various types of gel that turns out to be a hog wash statement. My opinion is that if the bullet goes through the thickest part of an elk, hits no bone and exits its still spinning.

Go for it. Awaiting pics.
Hey Roy.....I just swaged a new .308 bullet with one of my new ballistic tips. It is a 260 grainer with an estimated B.C. of .974. Looks like a guided missile! What do you think?....Rich
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  #12  
Unread 04-06-2010, 07:09 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

I do not wish to "criticize" anyone who is testing. So take this for what it is worth.

I worry about stability factor in reduced velocity testing. Not spin induced fragmentation.

Any test comparing what bullets do is good, in my opinion. I like shooting through milk jugs, but this is difficult even at relatively short range. I have thought about shooting 50 gal garbage cans full of water at 1000 yrds, but a few years ago in a discussion here it was mentioned that the plastic can it self would cause false information. I still have not tried it, but still want to.

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  #13  
Unread 04-06-2010, 08:57 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

Weather has been lousy up here so I haven't been able to do higher velocity tests as yet but will attempt to post the 1800 feet/sec results. If we don't get any pics, I'll try again./Users/home/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Data/2010/Apr 6, 2010/DSCI0005.jpg
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  #14  
Unread 04-07-2010, 06:37 PM
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Re: BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

Quote:
I worry about stability factor in reduced velocity testing.
If you are losing sleep, pacing the floor late at night and mumbling to yourself you can try reading this article.

Terminal Ballistics


Even though he an engineer is from the cow college in Alabama i.e. the one with the substandard football team, he does a fairly good job of staying with the fundamentals. In it is a paragraph on spin and he pretty well summarizes my own opinions. Lots off people say lots of things about FMJ but few people actually know what they are talking about. He also understand game bullet stability.

You can also ponder his opinions on hitting bone as opposed to gelatin.

While I don't agree with everything, it is at least worth reading and thinking about. He has updated the stuff since I last read it so I read most of it again today.



If you enjoy smacking wet paper with bullets then you can read the companion piece.

Terminal Ballistics

If you like B movies you can go too his home page. I have a fondness for low budget scream queen and post-apocalyptic movies.
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