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beyond the the 338?

 
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:50 AM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Sidecarflip,

Exactly what is not practical about a custom built rifle?

Now there are alot of guys that flip rifles like hot cakes, for those that buy a rifle, develope a load, get tired of it and sell it in a 6 month period, no I would not recommend a custom rifle.

On the other hand, if your someone that really loves fine rifles and plan to keep a rifle as a lifetime investment and pass it down to your children, the full custom rifle is probably at better choice then a factory rifle.

Remember that a modified factory rifle has VERY LITTLE if any resell value. A full custom made rifle will hold MUCH higher resell value unless its a real odd ball chambering. Also, just because its a full custom rifle does not mean it can not be chambered in a very popular chambering. All in all, my builds have a commerical to wildcat ratio of around 3 commerical chamberings for every 2 wildcat chamberings.

I have sold dozens of used full custom rifles I have built and depending on barrel wear have always gotten at least 75% of new sale price and that has been for the most worn barrels. The newer barreled custom rifles generally run in the 80-90% resale value. Very little modified Rem 700s will get you that return.

We have to remember that while a full custom rifle may initially cost several times more then a modified factory rifle, you get alot more for your money and if it comes time to rebarrel the rifle, you can replace a world class match barrel, install it and finish it for about the same cost as a factory Rem 700 these days so its a pretty small price to bring your full custom rifle back to 100% new quality.

Are custom rifles for everyone, certainly not. For most people they would be a waste because most hunters, while they think they will, NEVER use them in a way that will make their benefits worthwhile to the shooter. This is why I have my customers provide me with significant information before we decide on a rifle project to serve their needs.

If your smart and design a rifle to fit the needs of the hunter, full custom rifles are every bit as practical as any modified commerical rifle.

Going back to your example with your car that you built up and never used, that is not the fault of the car or the built engine, you simply put alot of money into something that you never used. Hardly makes the 351 impractical. Same way with my Camaro. If I put this money into it and never used it it would not make much sense. I however do use my camaro and GREATLY enjoy every minute I spend with it building it up and driving it. For me the investment is well worth it and 100% practical. For someone like you that would not use it, certainly would not be practical.

In the end, I actually talk around 20-25 potential customers OUT OF A CUSTOM project every year because they tell me thing just like you are and I know they will probably not ever use the rifle to its full potential so I tell them to go buy a factory rifle as they will likely be far happier with a $800 rifle sitting in the closet not being used then a $4000 rifle doing the same thing.

Again, it comes down to the individual. If your truely a serious long range precision shooter and simply want the best of the best, saying a full custom rifle is 100% practical.

You need to make your own decision.

Seems there are alot of these conversations here on LRH these days. Used to be a different group of people here that were all looking to push the limits of precision and ballistic performance. That sadly has changed a bit. Now you hear alot of the "factory rifles will do anything you need to do" arguements and even hear the "There is no need to shoot and hunt past 1000 yard" arguements. Guess thats just the nature of the game when you get a huge increase in membership. The percentage of members that are the true hard core LR hunters drops off significantly.

If you do not think a full custom rifle is worth your money or is impractical, so be it but do not try to convince others that it would be for them as their situation may be completely different then yours and your opinion simply may not apply to them.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:07 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Great post Kirby, (I hope it's OK i called you by your first name)

For me a custom rifle wasn't in the cards, so, over the last year, I've been turning my Savage into a "custom" rifle, the only original part will be the bolt handle. That being said, I am already considering putting the money up for a custom Long Range rifle, in the future, when I get to the point where I have the skill to make the most of one
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:19 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emn83 View Post
Great post Kirby, (I hope it's OK i called you by your first name)

For me a custom rifle wasn't in the cards, so, over the last year, I've been turning my Savage into a "custom" rifle, the only original part will be the bolt handle. That being said, I am already considering putting the money up for a custom Long Range rifle, in the future, when I get to the point where I have the skill to make the most of one
No problem at all with you using my first name.

I also do not want to give the wrong impression, there is NOTHING wrong with modifying a factory rifle, I just get tired of hearing some say that its a waste of money to get a full custom rifle built, both opinions are extremes and do not apply to most of us shooters.

If a factory rifle is built up properly you can get amazine performance out of them. The most limiting factor with factory receivers is what you can chamber them in. Most will be limited to the RUM class of chamberings, a very few will accept the Lapua sized chamberings and some of those that will are not good choices.

it all comes down to what you want, what you need and more then anything how the new rifle will be used. For some a full custom is simply not needed. For others a full custom is a nessesity. We are all different but as long as we are all having fun doing what we love to do, its great to hear about everyones projects, not just tell others that our opinions are the only way to go.

Your Savage project will I am sure be a hell of a shooter. My personal best three shot group at 500 yards came from my 270 Allen Magnum built on a heavily modded Savage M111. Cut a 0.450" ctc three shot group at 500 yards so the "CHEAP" Savage certainly will hold their own.

If you had to choose a factory rifle, the Savage would likely be a very strong choice to go with. Keep us posted to your results!! Have fun.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Hold the Phone...........The car was bad a** and beautiful in the most elegant of ways. I loved that car. I loved that engine. It just evolved into something I could not use. To beautiful to get covered in saw dust and mud at work and too low and loud for a hunting truck. Life became working and hunting mostly. As a beater with a primer door it was my daily driver. As a beautiful black rumbling monster of days gone buy I became an impractical owner of it. There ain't nothin wrong with the car except I built it into something beyond my needs............ Like a rifle I hardly ever shot. For me that would make no sense at all, and in all likely hood at the moment of truth would rather use the one I used all the time and knew so well. I personally am quite content with the savage action,accutrigger, a good barrel with twist and chamber to my needs and a stock that fits me..................That rules out "factory" rifles all together.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2012, 09:03 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Prime example of why its essential to properly plan all custom projects, cars, guns or anything. I spend ALOT of time with each customer before we get even close to final specs on a rifle. Learning from them what they want, how they will use the rifle, what they want to do with the rifle, what game will be hunted, how the rifle will be hunted with, what type of terrain they hunt in if this is a hunting rifle.

I learn as much as I can from each customer because what I WANT to build means nothing for what the customer wants or more importantly needs.

It makes no sense to build a rifle that does not serve the needs of the customer or it will not be used. Build it to really serve their specific needs and the rifle will be the ultimate in practicality, build it wrong and it will never be used.

Does not matter if its a beautiful rifle build if it is wrong for the customers needs, just like your car, did not fit into your lifestyle so while it was a poor fit for you, it was an ideal fit for someone else. That is my main point, planning is the most critical part of any custom project and all that needs to be done long before the any parts are even ordered.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:38 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

My downfall Kirby, if you will, is that I get something and I can't sell it. Probably why I have a shop full of motorcycles, gun safes (literally full of firearms) and a shop full of machine tools, some old, some new, all important to me in one way or another.

It absolutely pains me to sell anything of value.

I don't hang on to junk, collect old newspapers or that kind of stuff, but I do keep things of value.....

I have absolutely nothing against custom build rifles or handguns, I just don't have the room for many more.... Looking to the side of the desk, there is a new Savage 11 LWH leaning there, waiting for a scope to be mounted and a Wilson Combat 1911 in the lap drawer....

I have guns I haven't looked at for a long time and guns I've never loaded. It's about collecting. Just like motorcycles and cars I guess.

So long as you can afford the tarriff.
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  #21  
Old 06-06-2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
My downfall Kirby, if you will, is that I get something and I can't sell it. Probably why I have a shop full of motorcycles, gun safes (literally full of firearms) and a shop full of machine tools, some old, some new, all important to me in one way or another.

It absolutely pains me to sell anything of value.

I don't hang on to junk, collect old newspapers or that kind of stuff, but I do keep things of value.....

I have absolutely nothing against custom build rifles or handguns, I just don't have the room for many more.... Looking to the side of the desk, there is a new Savage 11 LWH leaning there, waiting for a scope to be mounted and a Wilson Combat 1911 in the lap drawer....

I have guns I haven't looked at for a long time and guns I've never loaded. It's about collecting. Just like motorcycles and cars I guess.

So long as you can afford the tarriff.
I see nothing wrong with that!!! As long as you collect what you like. I could think of many other ways to spend money that would be a waste which is not what your doing!!! As you said, collect things of value, that is never a bad thing!!!
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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