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beyond the the 338?

 
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2012, 10:13 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Besides my comment concerning power versus size.....

I have personal issues embracing the .50 caliber round. The equipment and the round is just too expensive, even reloaded, to be of consequence. I look at it as a caliber of curiosity and not much else.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2012, 10:48 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
I chuckled at your comments concerning horsepower versus wallet size. You need a Gixxer. It will suck the paint off your Camaro when it screams past and costs half what your engine will, in the end. It's economy of scale and applies to rifles too.

I used to play the car game too. Bikes are so much cheaper and so much faster. It's possible to even build a potato bike to run if you have the wallet....again.
Your comparing a croch rocket to a muscle car????

I am into bikes as well but its a totally different sport. Apples to Oranges. Bikes are fast as hell, no doubt about that but when you drive by someone on a GIXXER, they will shear or give you no look at all. Drive by most anyone in an 800 HP 2010 camaro and most will give you that "OH MY GOD, LOOK AT THAT CAR" look!!!

Again, nothing against fast bikes, I personally live the super sport imports but they are no muscle car. They do not make movies about GIXXERS!!! LOL

Besides, you can not take your better half to the movies and a nice dinner and cruise the strip on a saturday night in comfort on bike, also can not take your 5 year old little girl to school on a Gixxer, just no comparision of any kind. Kind of like comparing a 338 Edge to a 338 Allen Magnum!!! LOL (Shameless Plug!!!)
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:02 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

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Originally Posted by highridge1 View Post
The 338 Edge and similar rounds are very tough to beat because within realistic longrangehunting distances they will get the job done with authority. When you starting talking about more power and going past a mile and even 2000 yards I start to think about just having fun and hitting rocks and steel.At those extreme ranges the accuracy isn't good enough with any round to be a serious hunting tool as far as I am concerned.Thats what makes the 338 edge. Ultra ,lapua etc so perfect because within the range I consider workable for hunting accuracy say about a 1600 yard limit those rounds have plenty of power and just make alot of sense.
I can not disagree with what you say but you are missing one aspect about long range shooting and hunting. Yes an Edge will do anything you need to do in ideal conditions, even in not so ideal conditions.

In a 10 mph crosswind the Edge will be pushed around 40" at 1000 yards. Not to darn bad. Thats with a 300 gr Berger loaded to standard 338 Edge/30" barrel velocity of 2850 fps. In a 15 mph wind, it will have 60" of drift at 1000 yards.

Now how difficult is it to tell a 10 mph wind from a 15 mph wind at 1000 yards???? If your off 5 mph in wind estimate your shot will land up to 20" off point of aim IF everything else is perfect which it never will be.

Now a 338 AM in the same conditions will have 31" drift at 1000 yards in 10 mph crosswind. 15 mph will be 47" of drift. Thats roughly 22% less drift then the Edge. That equates into a 22% larger margin of error in your windage estimate at 1000 yards.

Thats just one aspect. We can look at many more. For instance retained energy and velocity at long range. Does the 338 Edge have enough energy, certainly but at higher terminal velocity and energy always produce more consistant bullet performance, especially with long range match bullet designs. The 338 AM will have 2330 fps and just over 3600 ft/lbs of energy at 1000 yards. Compare that to the 338 Edge with 1935 fps and 2490 ft/lbs of energy. Looking at it another way, the 338 AM numbers at 1000 yards are nearly exactly what the standard 338 Edge will get you at 550 yards. Again, not hammering the Edge in any way, I build them 5 to 1 to my 338 AM as they fit most hunters needs much better but there are levels of performance out there that most have no experience with.

Another KEY aspect to responsible big game hunting at long range is getting the bullet down the barrel and to the target big game animal before the animal moves. We all know this is a real possibility and one of the biggest risks to us big game hunters that results in poor hits. The time of flight for the 338 Edge to 1000 yards is 1.278 sec. Again, not bad at all. BUT the 338 AM will cover the same distance in 1.074 sec. Now, 0.200 sec does not seem like alot but if you figure the amount of time it takes a big game animal to take a full step....... Its a LONG TIME when the bullets in the air and the target decides to take a step.

AGAIN, I am a huge fan of the 338 Edge, there is nothing bad you can say about it but most of the time when I hear guys say there is no need for anything larger then the 338 Edge I get the feeling that they have never experienced the next level of performance. All I can say is that until you do experience this level of performance you have no idea what its like. Hell, a quote from my good friend Shawn Carlock who knows a thing or two about the Edge said about the 338 Allen Magnum shooting at 1000 yards, "Its as easy as kicking your best dog!"

Hitting small targets at long range, especially in conditions that you can not peg exactly on is dramatically easier with this level of performance. On paper numbers is one thing, in real life the difference is much more dramatic. I am not saying the 338 AM is better then the 338 Edge, as I mentioned, I recommend and build the 338 Edge 5 to 1 compared to my 338 AM. That is because it DOES fit most hunters needs much better as far as rifle size, cost and just what they need for how they hunt.

My only point being, for special situations, the 338 Edge could be considered marginal, even at ranges of 1000 yards or less.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:22 PM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
Besides my comment concerning power versus size.....

I have personal issues embracing the .50 caliber round. The equipment and the round is just too expensive, even reloaded, to be of consequence. I look at it as a caliber of curiosity and not much else.
I have worked ALOT with the 50 BMG class weapons, built alot of them, even up to my 510 Allen Magnum which will add 200 fps to anything the standard 50 BMG will produce. I like the 50 cal weapon systems. Once you learn how to load for them, they are amazingly accurate but I would have to agree, they are more novelty then practical weapon systems, at least for field use.

Not only that, consider that the standard 50 BMG mil spec load has EXACTLY the same trajectory out to 1000 as a 300 Win Mag loaded with a 190 gr Hornady SP!!! Nothing to write home about. Most modern magnums will smoke the 50 BMG in nearly every ballistic catagory other then kenetic energy.

Add to the lacking ballistic performance, you have to pack around a 30 lb or heavier rifle, not real practical. They are fun as hell to shoot. More accurately discribed as an EVENT then just shooting session but thats about it.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Cars: 1972 Torino, drove it as beater for years then I built it up with a beefed up 351 Cleveland. After years of working on it......I drove it less than 50 miles the year after completion and sold it to a kid who might actually get around to driving it. I drive a m1009 84 blazer. Strait utility. 20mpg 4x4 0-60 in about 6..................... minutes, that is.
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:22 AM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

I had a bunch of things I wanted to reply to............then I realized this is the same BS that I went away for in the first place.......keep the carnival going !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: beyond the the 338?

Kirby....

My comment is simply that if you have the money to pour into any project it becomes something of unique interest. Key word is money.

Dollars for dollars, the Gixxer is the best investment.

I have a really nice vintage Triumph with a sidecar that I spent 4 years building both mechanically and physically. It is unique, usually wins first place at any show it's entered into, it's certainly a chick magnet (not that I care at my age) but as a practical bike, it's not. It gets ridden ocassionally. Thats it. Is it fun? Sure is. Does it garner attention? Sure does, in fact, I have to park it where I can watch it because people are attracted to it and have to 'touch' it, I have an issue with hands on the paint job stuff.....

No, I don't have a Gixxer, no death wish here....

Definite ratio between money and practical usage, probably why I don't own any custom built rifles and all my rifles and hand guns are production models.

Would I like a one off firearm? Sure would but the practical side of me wins out every time.
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