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Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

 
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

A very fine and innovative gunsmith who frequents this site told me that with my 300 RUM I should use the 200 grain Accubond from zero to 500 yards and the 210 grain Berger from 500 on.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2010, 06:35 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Morgan View Post
A very fine and innovative gunsmith who frequents this site told me that with my 300 RUM I should use the 200 grain Accubond from zero to 500 yards and the 210 grain Berger from 500 on.
I pretty much agree with that statement as long as we realize that there is a point where the Berger fails to expand at all......Rich
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  #31  
Old 12-26-2010, 08:32 PM
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Location: Tillamook, Oregon
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

If a person is never going to shoot past 500 yards, don't use Bergers, there's very little ballistic advantage compared to other premium bullets out to 500 yards. Although I will say that I have never seen such dramatic kills with any other bullets at any range than with Berger. Ballistically these bullets start to leave the others behind at 500. I am not a bit hesitant to use them at close range when the situation calls for it. I use 210 Bergers running 3100fps for elk and deer. My comfortable shooting range also extends to around 1200 yards on deer and about 1000 yards for elk in the right conditions with adequate bullet performance. I have used them at fairly close distances with great success. Blacktail deer at 380 yards, one shot behind shoulder fell dead in tracks. Bull elk at 150 yards, one shot behind shoulder walked about 10 yards, dead. Neither bullet exited, both bullets hit rib on the way in with massive internal damage- just what they are supposed to do. I am very, very pleased with all aspects of Berger VLD performance.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Elizabeth, WV
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

I may have an unpopular comment to some of you but its just my .02. I dont have any experience with the bergers yet (i plan to) but I have shot MANY deer with match kings and ballistic tip varmit bullets and sierra varminters. I am a fan of a fragmenting bullets. Some people will say they blow up on the hide, I can't argue that. But isnt that like holding a shotgun right on the hide? If a bullet has 3000 ft/lbs of energy at a given distance and the bullet is stopped inside the animal, that animal has just received 3000 ft/lbs of energy. If a bullet has 3000 ft/lbs of energy, epands to a dime sized mushroom and passes through, how much energy did the animal receive? 500?1000? I have never shot an elk but I shot a deer in the shoulder with a 250 match king under 300 yards. That bone just made more shrapnel and it took a hop and died in the air. I have seen deer run 100s of yards with perfectly placed partitions. I know an elk is much bigger, but if you hit one in the shoulder with a partition, accubond, or game king will it do much better?

With either type of bullet you can have an animal run. I just prefer the thin jacket myself. But then again, i hunt deer. We dont have elk.
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:28 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

You are correct about the devastating killing ability of fragmenting bullets. The rub is, as you already suggested, an elk is a different critter. I did kill an elk at less than 100 yards with one of my bullets that are designed for long range. I INTENTIONALLY shot him 6" behind the shoulder to make sure I didn't hit the shoulder. He staggered backwards two steps and went down. If you shoot an elk quartering or even in the shoulder, sooner or later you WILL have problems.......Rich
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  #34  
Old 12-27-2010, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cranbrook, BC, Canada
Posts: 155
Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

I have no problem using bergers for hunting. Next season I will try out the 300 hybrid and see what she can do. I have seen 140's from a 260 reminton fail to penetrate from about 30 yards, point of the shoulder shot. The deer was finished of with a 308 shooting winchester grey box. But I have seen some serious bang-flops from other VLD shots. Put any bullet through the heart of a game animal and it will die - period.

However I do question people talking about how much energy is transfered to an animal with a pass through shot. Even on a pencil through the bullet will be significantly slowed. Due to the way energy is caculated the speed of a bullet has a drastic effect on the energy remaining. If a 165gr tsx exits a deer at 500fps who cares? It has less than 100ft-ibs left. Especially when it started with 2500ish when it hit. Even if it exited at 1000fps it would only have 370ft-ibs left. I read some testing with ballistics jelly, shooting through a 24" block if I remember right, with two chrony's set up. The remaining velocities and energies were so low that it would not matter one bit that all of the energy is not transfered.

I use accubonds and TSX for hunting but I would not think twice about using a berger. Just put it through the heart lungs from a reasonable angle.
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  #35  
Old 01-01-2011, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kane, WY
Posts: 139
Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

I tried a Berger 115gr hunting VLD in my 25-06 this fall on a whitetail buck at 150 yards. He was walking and wouldn't stop after a couple of blats like they do on TV, I hit him a little farther back than desired in the liver/diaphram area.
He took a half a dozen sickly steps and slumped to the ground.
I found the blown jacket on the far side just under the hide, and pretty incredible internal damage.
Just wanted to share this for everyones information to help make up their own mind on bullet selection.
But I will try them again for deer.
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