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Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

 
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2010, 10:22 AM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

They accurate but open up pretty fast so I only use them on deer & antelope. I prefer something more controlled expansion and deeper penetration on elk.

Last edited by Talyn; 10-23-2010 at 10:22 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2010, 01:49 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
They accurate but open up pretty fast so I only use them on deer & antelope. I prefer something more controlled expansion and deeper penetration on elk.
Just a few examples...all 300 rum. To much gun for me IMO

2008- elk season 185 gr. vld 300 rum at 3250 fps.- spike bull quartering away. 40 yards. thick cover. shot was in the 4th rib back from shoulder. elk humped up looked back at me and fell down. skinned the elk and found a totaly liquified chest cavity. tiny lead particles in the heart lungs area.

2008- deer 165 mrx barns at 3300 fps. 427 yards shot was 3 rd mid ribs behind shoulder. deer ran 100 yards and ran out of blood. exit hole was 3 inch ? damage was confined to lungs.

2009- cow elk- 211 yards 185 vld. 3250 fps. shot a little back from 6th rib. futher back than I wished. cow ran 50 yards and slid down in snow to my feet. guts were mess. lungs liquified 3/4 way back. no exit. lead cloud. messy situation.
2009- wife- cow elk 7mm rem 140 gr. tsx ? 2850 fps. 185 yards cow shot behind shoulder 2 nd rib. ran down hill 40 yards. fell down and was shot again in neck. both exit wounds were 2 to 4 inches. neck was broken behind ears.
chest cavity wound confined to top of heart and some upper lungs.

2009- 300 rum- 185 vld. 496 yards.Big Cat- hit low in chest broad side. entered first rib. blew out brisket. Cat slumped and landed in a pile never moved again. no sign of any bullet or fragments. 4 inch exit wound.

2009- deer. 330 yards broad side. 190 vld at 3180 fps. deer ran 20 feet fell down. entire chest cavity above diaphram liquified. small fragments of jacket found.

2009- elk. spike bull 70 yards. 190 vld at 3180. neck shot. dirt nap. all four legs tucked to fetal position and landed that way. 4 inch exit hole. 3 neck vertabray gone. spinal cord gone. no fragment of jacket found. lead cloud in hide on oposite side.

2010- deer 190 vld- 3180 fps. 103 yard. full frontal shot below neck line at center chest. chest cavity liquified above diphram. DRT. found a small jacket and some particles of lead. jacket weight was 23 grains.

2010 dad deer- 300 wsm 165 tsx at about 3000 fps ? not hand loads. 400 yards deer broad side. shot hit low in chest and some lower leg. could have been better. deer found 1/2 hour later. still alive. finish shot neck. no sign of any bullet. exit wound neck was 2 inches ?
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 23
Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

And for a little humor....

Client reads Berger ad in Handloader magazine.....

Client uses VLD on coastal brown bear and shoots it in the shoulder at 40yd.. Bear gets upset and mauls hunter. Guide shoots bear in head with Nosler partition and kills it. Partition found in the bears body cavity. Client sues Berger for false advertising.

I know that is a bit sarcastic but I really don't wish to become a bear turd anytime soon and I would not want that to happen to anybody else either.

Penetration and weight retention are what made partitions, a-frames, X's, solids etc., famous. I really doubt there are many guides, PH's or bullet companies that would endorse a hollowpoint/frangible for large or dangerous game.

BTW. X-bullets always leave a small exit hole. It is what they do between the holes that is important, as you can see in this video. YouTube - Triple-Shock X-Bullet

I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I have to honestly say that using frangibles on anything larger than Alabama sized deer is unethical. Using them on dangerous game is just pure nuts.

2 weeks ago, Wife, 85gr. TSX. antelope shot in shoulder quartering away. Shoulder bone and joint shattered. bullet exited neck behind ear. lope dropped like rock. Ruark rolls in grave.

Happy hunting
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2010, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota/Idaho
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustybrown View Post
Just a few examples...all 300 rum. To much gun for me IMO

2008- elk season 185 gr. vld 300 rum at 3250 fps.- spike bull quartering away. 40 yards. thick cover. shot was in the 4th rib back from shoulder. elk humped up looked back at me and fell down. skinned the elk and found a totaly liquified chest cavity. tiny lead particles in the heart lungs area.

2008- deer 165 mrx barns at 3300 fps. 427 yards shot was 3 rd mid ribs behind shoulder. deer ran 100 yards and ran out of blood. exit hole was 3 inch ? damage was confined to lungs.

2009- cow elk- 211 yards 185 vld. 3250 fps. shot a little back from 6th rib. futher back than I wished. cow ran 50 yards and slid down in snow to my feet. guts were mess. lungs liquified 3/4 way back. no exit. lead cloud. messy situation.
2009- wife- cow elk 7mm rem 140 gr. tsx ? 2850 fps. 185 yards cow shot behind shoulder 2 nd rib. ran down hill 40 yards. fell down and was shot again in neck. both exit wounds were 2 to 4 inches. neck was broken behind ears.
chest cavity wound confined to top of heart and some upper lungs.

2009- 300 rum- 185 vld. 496 yards.Big Cat- hit low in chest broad side. entered first rib. blew out brisket. Cat slumped and landed in a pile never moved again. no sign of any bullet or fragments. 4 inch exit wound.

2009- deer. 330 yards broad side. 190 vld at 3180 fps. deer ran 20 feet fell down. entire chest cavity above diaphram liquified. small fragments of jacket found.

2009- elk. spike bull 70 yards. 190 vld at 3180. neck shot. dirt nap. all four legs tucked to fetal position and landed that way. 4 inch exit hole. 3 neck vertabray gone. spinal cord gone. no fragment of jacket found. lead cloud in hide on oposite side.

2010- deer 190 vld- 3180 fps. 103 yard. full frontal shot below neck line at center chest. chest cavity liquified above diphram. DRT. found a small jacket and some particles of lead. jacket weight was 23 grains.

2010 dad deer- 300 wsm 165 tsx at about 3000 fps ? not hand loads. 400 yards deer broad side. shot hit low in chest and some lower leg. could have been better. deer found 1/2 hour later. still alive. finish shot neck. no sign of any bullet. exit wound neck was 2 inches ?
Congrats with the results, but I'll stick to my original statement.
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2010, 11:08 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4LClover View Post
I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I have to honestly say that using frangibles on anything larger than Alabama sized deer is unethical. Using them on dangerous game is just pure nuts.
Not offended but would respond that I sceptically started giving Bergers a try and after a friend shooting a 300class bull elk with a 243 though the shoulder, spine and ending just under the shoulder on the off side at 100yrds I got serious enough to shoot an elk with one so I shot one cow at 335 yrds with my 270 WSM through the heart and I was amazed how hard that elk dropped, so I've shot some more and results are impressing every time, I don't need to put it on bone just hold behind the shoulder and drop em. I would not put the Berger in a varmint type frangible they penetrate and unleash, I have yet to hear of one splash wounding so they aren't as frangible as your thinking in fact if they have any problem it is over penetrating and not opening. I also really like the Accubond style bonded bullet, they open fast but punch though, I have a very high confidence factor with a bullet of this style, copper bullet do nothing for me and I've had way more bad things happen with them than a Berger type bullet. I do plan on giving the GS HV line of bullets a try for a copper bullet.

This is long range hunting some times a varmint bullet works great when you shoot them in the range that the velocity lets them function like a normal bullet, some of the ranges we have shot some stuff a Barnes or Bonded bullet would not even open up but a varmint bullet opens nice and kill very effectively.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2010, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 2
Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
Very simple, through slick marketing they try to sell there minus as a plus. They are more match bullets than hunting bullets and perform about the same as any match bullet. Most blow up and/or complete jacket seperation or they pencil hole. Just no reliability. That is why one guy braggs on them and the next guy hates them. Just no reliability to duplicate performance shot to shot like a top quality hunting bullet. That is why I hear of way more lost game to Berger bullets than any other. BC's are great, but for best hunting performance you have got to get a top hunting bullet first and then look at BC second. I will not under any circumstances shoot a berger bullet at game animals.
4 power to long time long ranger no lost game with bergers in last year gun has killed ten deer on youth hunts. last one at 700 yd! we all call these bullets dit----dead in tracks---- with no meat loss.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota/Idaho
Posts: 14
Re: Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

No meat loss?

I have yet to see that in my entire hunting life. There is always meat loss at the entry and exit points (if there is an exit). In my own experience and in pics I've seen of a skinned deer or elk there is always meat loss. Some worse than others depending on how fast the bullet opens up.

My .02

Last edited by Talyn; 11-21-2010 at 10:28 AM. Reason: spelling
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