Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

[jhlobik]

Its my understanding that the Berger Bullets are designed to shed 40-80 % of their weight, after they penetrate about 2-3 inches. In the process, they are designed to transfer most of the energy into the animal tissues in the form of shrapnel and cause a huge wound cavity. This is according to their description and to me it sounds a lot like a "hollow point" approach ??? I think it may work on small or maybe medium game, but not on the large tough game.

Traditional soft point hunting bullets are designed for penetration and to hold together as much as possible to ensure that penetration.

Berger takes a different approach to hunting with their VLD bullets.
Does anyone have any experience with VLD bullets in the real hunting situation ??? Any comments would be helpfull.

[kiwi3006]

I have used bergers a bit and am impressed with them, when used correctly. I would not use them up close because I feel they would over expand (blow-up) and not penetrate. However, when the distance increases and velocity drops off they expand and penetrate well.
I have shot several red deer and a pig at 400 - 590 yards with the 168 berger from a 7mm mag. The berger behaved as expected. Massive trauma inside, no exit, animal dead on the spot.

Pig at 476 yds with 168 berger

168 gr Berger results **Graphic photos**

Red hind at 594 yds Unusual shot

There are a lot of good reports on here with the berger, do a search on berger and read them up.

Stu.

[bigngreen]

I've been surprised by them, so far I really like them, the most use we've had are the 105gr 243, 140gr 270 and 210 30 cal. The 243 and 270 have taken a fair number of elk out to 400yrds with excellent results, they go in and start to open at the ribs or just inside and then blow a hole through all the goodies and you find the jackets under the hide on the of side, zero blood shot and no need of a second shot. The 30 cal we've only put on deer and results were mixed but I think on a heavy elk they would do just as the others. It is my bullet of choice if it will shoot, I think they work even better on heavier game.

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Very simple, through slick marketing they try to sell there minus as a plus. They are more match bullets than hunting bullets and perform about the same as any match bullet. Most blow up and/or complete jacket seperation or they pencil hole. Just no reliability. That is why one guy braggs on them and the next guy hates them. Just no reliability to duplicate performance shot to shot like a top quality hunting bullet. That is why I hear of way more lost game to Berger bullets than any other. BC's are great, but for best hunting performance you have got to get a top hunting bullet first and then look at BC second. I will not under any circumstances shoot a berger bullet at game animals.

[4LClover]

Brain damage due to lead poisoning is permanent. I switched to all copper for this reason first, and then found that they work better, period. A couple of the studies where they took a portable x-ray to deer check stations really woke me up.
Get the Lead Out - Autumn 2009 Living Bird, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

I was skeptical about letting my wife use an 85gr. TSX on deer and antelope in her .243 but found that they go through bone better than the 165gr SST's my son used to use in his 30-06. The internal organ damage is bizzare. Looks like a boat propellor went through the organs. (hydrostatic shock) All the bad press I have heard about copper bullets "pencil holing" etc. looks to be false.

If the game I hunt would stay as still as a paper target I would use Sierra Match Kings all the time, but unlike targets, animals have bones. (duh)

I have seen frangibles do some wacky things when they hit bone, including a 90 degree turn off the shoulder of a deer at 400+yd. I think I would rather leave that stuff behind.

Happy hunting

[J E Custom]

Originally Posted by jhlobik

Its my understanding that the Berger Bullets are designed to shed 40-80 % of their weight, after they penetrate about 2-3 inches. In the process, they are designed to transfer most of the energy into the animal tissues in the form of shrapnel and cause a huge wound cavity. This is according to their description and to me it sounds a lot like a "hollow point" approach ??? I think it may work on small or maybe medium game, but not on the large tough game.

Traditional soft point hunting bullets are designed for penetration and to hold together as much as possible to ensure that penetration.

Berger takes a different approach to hunting with their VLD bullets.
Does anyone have any experience with VLD bullets in the real hunting situation ??? Any comments would be helpfull.

I don't think anyone designs a bullet to shed the jacket. I do think that they design to a
specific use and if not used for that designed use they cannot be expected to perform perfect
every time.

Most bullet failures are from improper use (Not within design velocities, wrong type for game,
Poor shot placement for that particular bullet and even the wrong twist rate). all of these
things can lead to poor performance if not paid attention to.

There is no "Golden Bullet" that will do it all, so you have to select the right one for the job.

I use more than 10 different types of bullets for hunting because of a combination of accuracy
and terminal performance on the type of game I am hunting and if presented with a shot that
does not lend it's self to the bullet I am using I ether change my point of impact to improve the
performance or pass on the shot all together.

J E CUSTOM

[Derek M.]

I cannot tell you how much the Berger bullets I've used shed weight as I've never recovered one or any fragments of one. I've got a few deer under my belt with the 270 and 308 calibers. All were pass throughs and wound channels/exit holes were the same as btips I've used or regular speer or sierra hunting bullets. I could tell no difference in performance other than the Bergers were more accurate.

I like the Bergers well enough to where I am looking at a freshly shipped box with about 1000 bullets in various calibers and weights. All Berger, and they will be used for hunting.