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Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

 
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  #190  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:13 AM
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Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
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Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

I don't care what package they come in. You will never see them on my reloading bench again. I gave them a fair try and they failed as a killing bullet. Lost a huge mulie buck with the 140's out of my 270 and had bad luck with 190 in my 300 Win Mag. Shot a small cow elk & only got 8 inches of penetration. Had to shoot her again in the neck.
Kirk
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  #191  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:21 PM
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Location: SW Montana
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Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catahoula View Post
I don't care what package they come in. You will never see them on my reloading bench again. I gave them a fair try and they failed as a killing bullet. Lost a huge mulie buck with the 140's out of my 270 and had bad luck with 190 in my 300 Win Mag. Shot a small cow elk & only got 8 inches of penetration. Had to shoot her again in the neck.
Kirk
How do you know the bullet failed on the mulie if it was lost and not recovered?
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  #192  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:43 AM
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Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
How do you know the bullet failed on the mulie if it was lost and not recovered?
I was wondering the same thing, been my experience that barring massive equipment failure, the fault always lies with the shooter.
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #193  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:15 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cheney Wa
Posts: 167
Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

I have had nothing but outstanding performance with the Berger VLD for hunting. Been shooting them for 3 years now and every animal taken has dropped in their tracks, except for 2 mule deer, I shot 1 at 609 yds last year in montana and he went 10 yds and piled up and a buck I took this year in the Pasayten wilderness in Washington, He was 1185 yds bullet took him behind the front shoulder, he jumped, took 4 steps and then tipped over dead and never twitched. My customers this year alone have accounted for 2 Alaskan/Yukon moose, 3 bull elk, a stone sheep, a mountain goat,and 3 mule deer bucks all taken with Berger VLD's all one shot kills from ranges as short as 120 yds to almost 1200, in calibers ranging from 6.5/284 to 30/378 wby. The Bergers do an awesome job when we do our part! Jay
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  #194  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:09 PM
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Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catahoula View Post
they failed as a killing bullet. Lost a huge mulie buck with the 140's out of my 270 and had bad luck with 190 in my 300 Win Mag. Shot a small cow elk & only got 8 inches of penetration.
Kirk,

Your results are inconsistent with the vast majority of those who use them. This doesn't mean it didn't happen. The key point for us to focus on is to find out why. We get very few reports of "failures" but we do get them. We are focused on finding the root cause for these reports so that we can eliminate them regardless of the root cause.

Every bullet within every brand will have a story similar to yours that they "failed as a killing bullet." It is our responsibility to find out why and act on this information by either changing our bullets or by informing hunters on best practices to achieve successful results.

I encourage you to contact me directly at eric.stecker@bergerbullets.com so that we can review your situation in greater detail. It will also be beneficial if we can get the bullets back for testing. I will relay that to date, we have not been able to duplicate the results described (in other reports) using samples we've received. We have some more bullets heading our way which will be tested so I regard the situation as unresolved.

For the sake of others reading this thread I will relay three things that we know are possible causes for poor results. The first is using our Target or Tactical bullets instead of our Hunting bullets. The Target and Tactical bullets are made on thicker jackets which do not expand and fragment as effectively as the Hunting bullets.

The second item is slow impact velocity. It has been found in testing that our bullets will expand and fragment at velocities as low as 1,800 fps. This is slower than most bullets need to expand but having said this, I do not regard 1,800 fps as an acceptable impact velocity. Hunters should plan to have impact velocities above 1,800 fps. Several factors change MV including tempurature and altitude. Also, loads that are not chronographed may be shooting slower than is believed which may result in a lower than effective impact velocity.

The last item is trimming and repointing the bullet tips. Although this is a very effective way to increase BC it can lead to a bullet which pencils through the animal with no expansion or fragmentation. The tip of our Hunting bullets should not be modified. Even if you simply trim the tip you thicken it to the point where you may change expansion characteristics.

I mention these items not because I believe they apply to your situation but rather to help those who are using our bullets to avoid issues that may cause poor performance. Something to keep in mind is that I have never met an active hunters who has never put a second shot into an animal. I'm not saying they don't exist but I believe if they do, they are very few and not overly active.

Animals are at best inconsistent "media" and strange things can happen. It is our goal to provide the hunter with a tool that produces a quick, ethical kill. Using a second bullet to make sure an animal doesn't suffer for longer than necessary is something I do not regard as a failure.

I personally shot a large wild hog in WV at 75 yards. The hog ran straight at me but turned in the last 30 feet. As it charged me I took a second shot but being in a rush I missed. The hog ran another 100 yards before it piled up. When we got to it, the hog was breathing his final breathe so I did not take another shot to end the animals suffering since it had just expired.

We were testing bullets so we opened the animal to see what happened. We found that the shot had torn the bottom half of the hog's heart to shreds along with significant damage to the surrounding tissue. That hog was dead the moment the bullet made impact. It just didn't know it yet. Such situation are more common than one might expect making hunting one of the most challenging and enjoyable activities.

Regards,
Eric
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Last edited by Eric Stecker; 10-14-2012 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #195  
Old 10-14-2012, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,324
Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

Eric.....that was a good explanation! I am glad that you point out 1800' is a bare minimun and is not consistent shot to shot. I have found that in my testing, and hunting, 2200' will probably expand on most any shot. Also, as you point out, "animals are inconsistent media". Every shot on every single type of animal, can be quite different regardless of bullet brand (unless you are using solids). What I object to at times on this forum is, there are people who believe that one bullet is good for every animal, at every range, which I know you would agree is foolishness! The bullets that I make are made specifically for long range (low velocity expansion) so I certainly wouldn't recommend them for grizzly bears at 50 yards! My bullets are basically a high b.c., heavy, varmint bullet, which makes them very effective at about 2500' down to 1300'. Keep up the good work....Rich
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  #196  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 50
Re: Berger Bullets needs your advice - please help

Voted 100 but prefer to buy in 500 pc box
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