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Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

 
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2009, 09:01 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

At what range was the pronghorn he shot? I am particularly interested in this since I have a 7mm SAUM as my new toy. Was skeptical of it at first but the more I shoot it the more I like it. Neat little gun. Magazine is too short to allow looading bullets out to touch the lands. Don't know what effect this is going to have on it yet. Thanks.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2009, 09:12 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

The 168 vlds come with 2 jacket thicknesses, thin for hunting (orange box). Thick for target shooting (yellow box), might have been a mix-up.

I shot my mule deer in CO 2nd season and at 826 yards the 180 bergers out of a 7rum expanded considerably. The first hit the scapula knuckle and detonated. It fraged the lungs with shrapnel. and put the hurt on him. I sent another one that went high shoulder after a correction, and that one pencil thru the leading shoulder blade and than expanded quite well thru the spine and actually made and exit hole.

My experience with heavy bone and bergers leaves a bit to be desired. If that were an elk and the shot landed on that heavy knucle, Only a follow up shot would ensure a clean harvest.
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2009, 11:02 AM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

I think Cowboy nailed this one, that's the first thing I thought after I read the first post. Make sure you are using the hunting bullet.
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyboy View Post
The 168 vlds come with 2 jacket thicknesses, thin for hunting (orange box). Thick for target shooting (yellow box), might have been a mix up.

Yes exactly what I was thinking as well.

I shot a bull with my 300 RUM at 210 yds this year, the bullet pencil holed on the shooting side shoulder and then opened violently in the chest cavity, but did not exit the chest cavity. My brother used the same rifle a few days later to kill his bull at 670yds, same exact result small hole in, violent expansion tuning vitals to mush, did not exit the chest cavity. Oddly enough my bull ran about 100 yds with completelty exploded heart and lungs? My brothers bull went about 4 steps and fell over. In any event the bullets performed flawlessly both times.
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:39 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

That sounds just like Ballistic Tip performance to me. JohnnyK.
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2009, 05:46 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

Here in New Zealand we have no big game seasons or limits, so we hunt big game all year round. We have deer ranging from what we call Wapiti (Elk), to the similar body weight Sambar, then slightly smaller Red (known as Stag to you guys I think), then Sika, Rusa, Fallow and even Whitetail.
I have personally shot over 500 head of big game, and guided and witnessed the shooting of thousands more. These range from the biggest Wapiti down to the smallest Fallow, with the majority being Red and Sika deer, at ranges from point blank to 1500 yards.
The bullet I've shot by far the most big game at long range with is the 7mm 180gn thin jacket Berger, and it is a truly exceptional bullet for this job. It has definitely been the quickest killer of game beyond 500 yards, and also the easiest to hit with due to its BC verses velocity potential in the big 7mms. I also really like the 200gn Wildcat terminal performance wise, but I've run out of them! The 162 A-Max and 175 SMK also perform pretty good. This is in generally lightweight rifles, where the 7mm is king, due to the performance vs weight vs recoil tradeoff. In the heavier guns the 338 300gn SMK is an extremely reliable performer, and I expect the 338 Bergers to be even better! (Please Eric!!! Iíve rethroated most of my reamers to suit them in anticipation so I hope theyíre not too far away now!?!?!?)
There are exceptions to every rule, but the neither the AB's nor any other controlled expansion bullet will kill as quick at long range as the Bergers, even with Elk sized animals. Its all about impact velocity, there is no such thing as a bullet with ideal terminal performance at both 50 yards and 1000 yards, or nothing of current construction anyway. Yes, if you hit the shoulder knuckle on the largest deer at range, the Berger may not get through, but it will definitely temporarily anchor the animal to allow a follow up kill shot. But an AB through the lungs will allow the animal to travel a long way before it finally bleeds out due to very minimal expansion at long range. It will need to hit the knuckle to achieve much expansion. Donít get me wrong, the AB is my favourite under 400 yard bullet in most rifles, but I run a 2 load setup in most of them. ABís for closer stuff, and Bergers/A-Maxís/ SMKís for the longer shots.
The Berger will expand more than a controlled expansion bullet on any shot as a rule, but you will always strike the very odd anomaly if you shoot enough. As always though, this is the exception that proves the rule!
Greg
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  #21  
Old 10-30-2009, 09:11 PM
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Re: Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

Here's a question for you guys who carry 2 loads when hunting, as Greg mentioned for instance AB's for 400 & closer and bergers for 400+. Do you just have a drop chart for the bergers (as that's your long range bullet), & if it's 400 or under, just use the AB & aim accordingly, or will you adjust your clicks using your berger drop chart?? Do you carry 2 drop charts? I wouldn't think it necessary if one is just for under 400. But then again I'm the one asking the question.

Have I confused anyone now? Not sure how clear my writing was.
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