Barnes LRX TTSX, which one??

[500yd]

Originally Posted by toddc

Whats a t3? a t2? Do ya mean G3?

The unnofficial scoring guides use different nomenclature than the official B&C guides I assume in order to prevent confusion about who scored what and if the score is official B&C. For instance: Scoring Your Whitetail Buck

There aren't any bucks large enough where I hunt that would justify having an official scoring. So I use the unnoficial terms assuming folks here would know the difference, to avoid confusion. A lot of good that did...pfft. What's that saying? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? If you'd prefer I'lll use official B&C terminology when I talk about unofficial racks from now on. Seems counterproductive but I'll do so if it avoids confusion.

I'm starting to get the idea that I may be a bit too technically oriented person for this forum...

[Beng]

Originally Posted by 500yd

I think the Berger VLDs are probably some of the best hunting bullets around especially for long range work. Anyone who can get a > .5 BC from a .243 bullet is doing some amazing work. And they just get better climbing the caliber ladder.

Just rethorical because we're in a Barnes thread, I didn't mean to make assumptions on your opinion or imply anything.

Those lightweight copper(alloy) bullets are nice for smaller catridges at short range, but at extended ranges you just don't gain anything by using them.
I understand your comparison to a .308 Win, but why should one use a .300 WSM and limit it's performance to .308 standards?
Energy is useful as long as the choosen bullet apllies it effectively.
More energy is better than less energy.
The sole reasoning against more energy and it's preservation by efficient bullets, is rifle handiness and portability in relation to recoil, imo.

But perhaps that's just a german fetish for efficient overkill

[500yd]

Originally Posted by toddc

EPIC BUST!!! Sorry couldnt wait for maxi to get home from school when I saw the link I'll post at the bottom. So you discovered JBM 3 days ago and now you are an "INTERNET BALLISTICIAN"? WOW! You learn quick huh?

I find it difficult to understand how one human being can treat another with respect while trying to have an honest discussion on the merits, while the other is completely uncivil and acts like a child...

Yes, I discovered JBM three days or so ago. I got tired of doing calculations "by hand" and using the various Excel tables that didn't include the bullets I wanted load data for. You have incorrectly assumed once again, this time that I just started learning about ballistics 3 days ago because you saw my post asking about calculator software.

I'll snip the rest of the garbage below which isn't worth my response.

[Beng]

By the way, if your looking for data on bullets (not load data) then take a look at "Applied Ballistics for Longrange Shooting" by Brian Litz.
He compiled a good list of measured bcs and dimensions of many bullets of the major manufacturers and wrote a ~290 page summary of exterior ballistics.
It's the best investment in shooting literature one could make I think.
For Christmas I will get his 2nd book

ps: link

[toddc]

Originally Posted by 500yd

I've never taken a running shot freehand outside PBR, which is probably why I've never missed one. On the flip side, when I was young I missed plenty of long (for me at that time) stationary shots due to misjudging range. So don't think I'm saying I've never missed shots. Proof point...

Todd since you like attacking me so much you'll get a huge laugh out of this. Just two seasons ago I missed three successive shots at a standing doe at less than than 150 yds, prone, with the bipod. She didn't spook until after the 3rd. As she ran off over the terrace and I unglued myself from the scope, cursing and scratching me head, I saw the clump of field grass on fire 6 inches in front of the muzzle. Sh*t happens--to everyone--now and then.

When I build a nest I always tamp/pull grass in my FOF arc. This was a drop-n-shoot scenario while I was walking, and the grass didn't seem very tall as I dropped down...

I dont mean to attack you but man it comes down to people taking bad advice because they read it on the internet. 15 bull elk shot in the shoulder next year with what I FEEL (even if Im wrong) is an inadequate round that might get away makes me sick. 1 animal is too much. I feel my personal combo of a 30" edge with 300s is a bare minimum so maybe Im a tad nutty. Hell I shoot prairie dogs with it.
Honestly though, I (and many others) have explored the x family at length in dead stuff and it will give you a little extra edge over a more traditional slug but its not a cure all for a good sd and momentum. FPE is one way to measure performance, other methods such as taylors and momentum calculators will dramatically favor the heavier slug. Thing is boss I have killed deer with overly light barnes and they are a deadly bullet. But they are not atom bombs either. I would call them the best bullet out there for using too small of a slug. But its still too small.
I guess we can agree to disagree, stay friends and let the folks reading figger it out.
If ya wanna come whack a KS buck next year get a tag and holler at me. We have some decent bucks lol. They dont run much either. Which is great cuz I suck at offhand ....and running.

[500yd]

Originally Posted by Beng

Just rethorical because we're in a Barnes thread, I didn't mean to make assumptions on your opinion or imply anything.

I'm not in the tank for Barnes or any other bullet maker. I just like their .30 110gr TTSX due to the ultra flat shooting it can bring to .30 rifles, and most importantly, with good terminal performance on medium game. Prior to this premium bullet all I found in this weight class were exploding varmint bullets. IMO, this bullet is a game changer for many whitetail hunters.

Those lightweight copper(alloy) bullets are nice for smaller catridges at short range, but at extended ranges you just don't gain anything by using them.

Yeah, the TTSX 110 is a flat base bullet and sheds velocity pretty quickly. And in this case I wouldn't try it on elk past 500.

I understand your comparison to a .308 Win, but why should one use a .300 WSM and limit it's performance to .308 standards?

The TTSX 110 round in essence converts a 300 WSM into a 22-250 WRT trajectory, and a 308 WRT energy. We're tading energy for trajectory.

Energy is useful as long as the choosen bullet apllies it effectively.
More energy is better than less energy.

Depends on your goals and what you're hunting. Hitting a whitetail in the chest while over gunned at short range, with say ~4000 ft-lbs at 100 yds (300 RUM 200gr), would just make one bloody mess to deal with. The same round at 700 yds would probably give a relatively clean kill on an elk.

The sole reasoning against more energy and it's preservation by efficient bullets, is rifle handiness and portability in relation to recoil, imo.

I've made the case here for trading max downrange energy primarily for much better 'short' range trajectory, for a combined deer/elk round, optimized more for deer, but good enough for elk for the specified max range. Less kick and fewer turret adjustments is a bonus. Slightly less bullet cost.

I think some here, not you, are under the mistaken assumption that I'm evangelizing the 110 TTSX/300 WSM combo as "the ultimate elk round" which couldn't be farther from the truth. If the OP was primarily hunting elk I'd have never recommended this round. Dual use rounds often incur compromises. This one is no different.

But perhaps that's just a german fetish for efficient overkill

In this case I thought it better to shoot flatter, spare the shoulder and the wallet on deer, but still have just enough to put an elk down on occasion. If you design for primarily elk, 200 gr rds do a lot of damage on deer, your shoulder, and your wallet, if you hunt deer more often than elk.

[Beng]

I think you're evangelizing trajectory, which became an anachronism when reliable laser range finder became available to the public.
Today you don't have to worry about misjudging the distance to your target, misjudging the wind is the main concern and minimizing the effects of a faulty wind call is much more important than being able to ignore a bit of drop.

.30 Caliber is just not right for flat trajectories.
If someone wants ultra flat trajectory, a 6.5mm STW or similar would be the way to go.
The .300 WSM doesn't have the case capacity to push ballisticly efficient bullets to the speeds required.
The terminal ballistic short comings of light for caliber bullets on heavy game were mentioned several times by hunters with proven record early in this thread.

If one plans to hunt elk then there is just no reason to use an inferior load.
The heavy Barne's bullets will kill deer just as fine as elk and concerning meat damage at short range, in such an occasion one shouldn't shoot the shoulder anyway.